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- - AA vs SWA CJO (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/151010-aa-vs-swa-cjo.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werjower (Post 3943269)

This right here. Not to sway anyone away from AA... but if you're planning on working hard and maximizing credit, the best you could probably do without getting extremely lucky with premium/AF pay is around 105-120 hours of credit. And that's giving away a lot of days off. We trail every other airline in this regard.

Buuuut we can also (if you're in the top seniority bracket) drop your entire month and fly solely premium. And that's what our union likes.

You can easily do 130+ in FAR MAX months, while burning vacation. I get bad vacations anyways. I did 162 hours in July.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Czervik (Post 3942709)

Don’t commute. Disagree on the aircraft statement though. I knew the 737 sucked after a few hours. Thousands of hours on the 787 and don’t feel the same.

No one says the w/b's suck, especially the 777 and even more so the 787.

Sleep cycle? Yeah, that sucks. For most people the other positives outweigh that negative.

You mentioned that money isn't a big issue. As another poster mentioned bidding w/b FO and sitting rsv is a great way to not work at AA. Of course you'll work, occasionally you'll get slammed and fly a full month as a w/b rsv, but on average it's less days per month over the year.

If money is truly not an issue, and time off is, stay as an FO, get senior in your bid status, and you can drop ever trip every month. The only obligation is to keep your landing currency. Some people do a turn a month, so w/b FO's running a profitable business fly a Friday PM/Sunday return Europe trip once a month. Some guys fly a 6 leg trip (3 landings) every 70-80 days (gives you time to pick up another landing or two if the first trip falls apart.

As another post mentioned - senior FO friend (top 10%) flown none of his trips in Dec/Jan. Dropped all for premium. But sometimes the spigot is off and sometimes the premium is flowing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by airplanes (Post 3943201)

Out of curiosity, does SW have exclusively turn lines?

I can only speak for MCO but yes. There are a number of just turn lines. Maybe 7-8 each month?

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlepilot (Post 3942319)

I did a search but couldn't find anything with current contracts at AA and WN.

So about to turn 42 and finally got a December class at SWA after swimming in the pool. Also just interviewed at AA and got the CJO, was told to likely expect a December or January class. I'm really at a crossroads and really unsure who to pursue.

My priority is QOL as I have two young kids at home. Ive been a ULCC captain and LCA for several years so we have stacked away a good amount of cash and not really chasing money anymore. Plus my wife makes 1st year FO legacy pay working from home. We live in central/east Texas so both DFW/DAL and HOU are roughly a 2:15-2:30 drive. (just moved not long ago, and wont move again)

My gut tells me AA due to the large retirements and multiple fleet types. 3 weeks vacation after 1 year is nice, Long call RSV, no published short call RSV time out. Good commuter policy. I'll take the 737 initially for the seniority boost if able.

I know movement at SWA will be much slower, however trip flexibility is great and 15 days off minimum really adds up at the end of the year.

Buddies at both places are really unsure which way to go, many say it's pretty much a win/win. Except for being in a 737 for 20+ years at SWA.

I've also heard the argument that SWA guys have left for AA, but no one has left AA for SWA.

I know hourly cash is likely a wash, but how is LTD at both places, profit sharing, soft time, sick time, etc?

I'm sure there are other things I'm not considering that could be important. Thoughts???

Don't burn bridges. AA is barely making money compared to the other legacies. It'd be the 1st to furlough if something happens.

If you'rr set on AA. See if you can push back the SWA class date a couple months. If the AA class date pans out, politely reach out and decline the SWA offer, you might need the option in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogPit (Post 3943257)

How dense are you? I am not senior and only do higher credit 3 days.

Me, me, and my other me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudpie (Post 3943408)

If it is a normal economic downturn and not something like a virus that takes all aircraft loads down to basically zero, the first to furlough will be those who have large international flying operations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImSoSuss (Post 3943412)

Yearly retirements is a HUGE furlough protection. A year, or two, of retirements mitigates that same amount of furloughs.

Percentages are a better guide IMO. Typically cyclical furloughs don't start under 5%. Yes, there's been the odd ball lower percentage of the total pilot corps furloughed but for planning purposes 5% is a decent gauge. Bad furloughs typically hit 15%. 9/11 had a couple of 20% and 2(??) reach 25% (??). With 15,000 pilots 5% is 750 retirements. So right now there's a good chance that the junior folks are protected from the small, 5%, furlough risk. But with strong hiring the bottom 2000-2500 can get out of the 15% in a couple of years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sliceback (Post 3943423)

Exellent point that I think seems to not be taken into consideration. Here’s another one:

With the OP being 42, that’s about another two and a half decades in the 737 if you go to SWA (assuming no new fleet type).

I’ve been on it 19 years now. Trust me. You’ll be craving a change and your back will want to divorce you for putting it through that long-term torture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImSoSuss (Post 3943412)

That's the main advantage of not having very many wide-bodies, we don't have any left to park! Playing who is going to furlough first is a silly game but history supports your assertion.