STAND-UPS?
 

Hey folks,

Just wondering what airlines still do "stand-ups" (Continuous Duty Periods).

TIA,
Johnny Doe, the Twenty-Turd

I’ll do ya one better. Double leg redeyes…. No sleep

We can but they are paid as a two day trip and the company refuses to use them unless under rate circumstances

We're saving that particular unpleasant task for the next contract I'm sure.

My last trip felt like a continuous doodie period.

not SW....

Standups can go ef them selves. Just another way for the regionals to pay their pilots less

I've never seen one at Delta.

Never seen a stand up.

We do, however, perform standing takeoffs. But we do those sitting down.

Never in the bid package...

[Mod edit to add: From AA] Yes. Rare for pilots. Depends on base. Just bringing them back recently.

Closest thing to a high speed at SWA is a redeye pairing but the redeye is preceded by a long rest day, example day two overnight is 23 hours followed by one leg SFO to BNA arriving at 0530 and done.

There was actually some decent standup lines that went sr at f9 years ago. Den abq or Phx get 8 hrs sleep. Paid 6 contractually so you could do a month of them working three days a week. Basically a true part time job. Haven’t seen those in years.

I've done one as a GS

first of all call them by there proper name. All nighter turns!!!

They two leg kind with a hotel are actually pretty popular... you have the whole day off at home.

At DL, the FA’s have those and call them “lean-overs”. They are particularly popular with young Moms.

I always comment that “thank heavens we don’t have those”, but some get as much as 7 hours in the hotel. Some only 3-4 hours. Yuck.

At DL, ATL 320 has them quite often. Because there are so many small airports within 350 miles.

we get paid 10:30 for them. So the company doesn’t build them in the bid package. But will for a broken pairing.

Big D *can't* build them in the bid package...not allowed.

Only when they start making up the "will cover" rotations

my understanding is standup at DL can only be by proffer. You cannot be assigned (bid package, reserve assignment, IA) a standup, only request to fly it.(WS, YS, GS)

They also seem to be popular with 72 year old women, I’m thinking what are you doing here on your second lean in a row, it’s way past your bed time this can’t be healthy for you.

At AA we now have split duty. 1 leg out, few hours at the hotel, one leg back. They leave at night and come back early AM. They only pay 7:45, which is a raw deal.

Do 9 a month (back to back for three days at a time with a week off somewhere) that’s 21 days off and better than 2-1 rig to block depending on leg length. Short leg/max time for rest could turn out to be a good deal.

I think it's in the eye of the beholder. If you can thrive, at least for a few days, with less than eight hours sleep then if affords a lot of time off during the day. You can be home with kids, work another job, do whatever you want.

If nobody wants them and juniors get forced into, yeah that's no fun for a lot of folks.

It would be really difficult to do them back to back under most legacy CBAs. 7:45 is garbage pay for them, I did many at OO that paid much better than that. There is definitely a huge gap between good ones and bad ones.

id probably go into it with this mindset of getting stuff done at home but in reality after day 2 id be sleeping all day and then spiral into a patterne of never really getting any sleep or anything done.
I did it in my 20s and thats exactly what happened. Now id have to call in fatigue day 3

I used to fly good ones regularly that afforded me over 6 hours (sometimes almost 9) of sleep. The funny thing is the good ones paid way better as well since we got 1:1 pay after 12 hours of duty. If you had one close to the max of 14 hours it would pay almost 8 hours. I remember doing PDX-BOI that paid like 7:40 and had almost 9 hours behind the door. It was next to impossible to stack those back to back though with PBS buffers.

I am in the exact same boat. I cant even fly PM's anymore because they mess with my sleep so bad. This stand up nonsense sounds horrific.

Again, eye of the beholder. Some people need less sleep, and some standups have more hotel time than others.

Thanks for your replies, folks.
Our company is talking about doing them again. Wanted to hear just how operators do still do this.

Originally posted this thread into every folder. Sorry if that upset anyone.

Stay safe,

Jay-Dee

I dont believe some people needs less sleep. I think some people just handle it better shrot term..
Long term we all suffer the same effects

And you would be incorrect.

The regional I came from had them, off and on. I never had any interest in working them but I liked it when we had them. Variety is almost always a good thing. When we had them, they were bid as a line schedule for the month and those schedules went senior which meant other schedules that I wanted went more junior.

Why did they go senior? They allowed those that got them significantly more time at home and fly a schedule of 30ish hours and getting paid about 75ish ours for the month.

Why were they good to have even if you didn’t want them? As said above, variety is a good thing. But also their existence removed undesirably flying from the build of other sequences making other sequences more efficient and pay better and have longer layovers… so we all benefited from it.

Why did they go away? Their existence activated or allowed pilots to exploit holes in the contract. The union would beg pilots to not “x, y, or z” because there was nothing stopping the company from not offering the stand ups. The pilots abused the situation anyway.


My take, with the right rules in place it’s good for everyone.

Some people day sleep very well. For those people it’s not automatically less sleep.


I am not one of those people.

thats true. I was more commenting on less sleep period, not time of day sleep.

I can handle it short-term, but yes I certainly will need to catch up within a week or I get grumpy.

But some folks definitely thrive on four hours, or even less, of sleep long-term, apparently it's genetic. Many of your CEOs, national politicians, O10 military officers, etc fall into that category. It's how they work 100 weeks, get ahead, and still feel they have a life.

How many of us would feel they have a life though? How happy are they really?

Most of us would not, so we don't.

But the ones who actually thrive generally seem to be loving life... success, money, respect and still enough time to do some normal life things. And they genetically don't need the sleep.

If I could buy that gene, I would. If for no other reason than so I could have time for hours of video games each night.

I did nothing but standups at OO for almost ten years. It allowed me to have a completely different career at the same time outside of aviation. I'd usually do Thurs, Fri, and Sat stand-ups. I'd work Mon-Fri in the office , drive to the airport on Thursdays, do a stand-up, drive back to the office, then back to the airport Friday night, then home on Saturdays. There's absolutely no way I could have done my other job if stand-ups hadn't existed.

Some of them were easy. The soft time was amazing. I'd fly ~300 block and credit 1000/yr. Some of the trips gave you almost legal rest. Like SFO-STS, you'd be wheels up at 1930 and in the hotel by 2015. Then back out again at 0530 for an 0615 departure, and back in my car by 0715. Some of them were terrible, like SFO-MRY which only gave us 4 hours of sleep opportunity.

The crews were great. You'd get to know everyone because you flew with the same people all the time. We called ourselves vampires and it was rare that we flew in daylight hours.

Standups weren't for everyone, but I loved them. Well, most of them. One time I accidentally bid Edmonton standups from SFO. Those were a complete nightmare. But overall? I'd do them again in a heartbeat.