Career Success Rate????
08-20-2007, 01:03 PM
#1
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Career Success Rate????
Well, one of my main questions is, is there a failure rate???? im talking about PPL who have a degree, all the licenses, a required amount of entry hours, Class 1 med., a good personality, and good references..... do people ever just, "never get an aviation job"?????
Im just curious....
Im just curious....
08-20-2007, 01:52 PM
#2
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
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Keep reading
If a pilot such as you describe is willing to go anywhere and take any aviation job, he or she will almost certainly get one. Whether or not they will be happy afterward is another question entirely. This forum is a good place to learn how pilots at various companies feel about their work. Good luck!
08-20-2007, 02:04 PM
#3
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As with everything that is worth while. Persistence and effort are the key ingredients. My opinion is that aviation just requires alot more than other occupations. Just like Tom says, if you're willing to do what's necessary. Then the odds are in your favor.
In my short time as a professional pilot. I've had 4 jobs and moved twice over the last 3 years. Now I'm finally at a career company and loving it.
In my short time as a professional pilot. I've had 4 jobs and moved twice over the last 3 years. Now I'm finally at a career company and loving it.
08-20-2007, 02:36 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by KW10001
Well, one of my main questions is, is there a failure rate???? im talking about PPL who have a degree, all the licenses, a required amount of entry hours, Class 1 med., a good personality, and good references..... do people ever just, "never get an aviation job"?????
Im just curious....
Im just curious....
You will be able to get a CFI job for sure, no problem.
You will also be able to get a regional job when you have enough flight time. However...this hypothetical person has about a 5-10% chance of being unable to complete regional airline 121 training...some seemingly normal folks can't handle the pace in the sim, they just get overwhelmed.
If you get past that hurdle, get your turbine PIC, and keep your record clean you have an excellent chance of getting a major airline job someday. Exactly when and whether or not it's a great company will be determined by the future direction of the industry, luck, and timing.
08-20-2007, 10:37 PM
#5
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A good deal of who finds success in the sim has to do with the training program, the instructor, and the fit with the new hire pilot. It doesn't hurt to be proactive and try to go to a company with a reputable training program. Not all are equal... let me assure you. Of course each airline thinks their training program is the best.
I have seen a couple of good pilots work their way through flight instruction, finally get a regional job, fail out of training, and move on to other careers; people who could easily have made it if they had chose more wisely instead of taking the first job offered. I have interviewed prospective CFIs that will not get hired as a CFI anywhere no matter what... precluding any run at an airline. This is usually an attitude issue or the result of having been deluded by a ratings mill who stole their money and kicked them out the door without a job. I have seen pilots fail out of IOE at one airline who have a job at another next week and are happily flying the line safely and professionally.
In the 1500 hours I spent as an instructor there were certainly students that had invested a significant amount of time and money in hopes of becoming airline pilots who had very little if any chance of ever doing so. The reasons varied from personality problems, drinking problems, surprise-I'm-pregnant, financial opportunity, self-defeat, intelligence, immaturity, realistic goal setting, health, buying a Camero... The list obviously goes on. I think this is to say that there are some people who will not be airline pilots no matter how bad they want it. Most of these don't make it to the more advanced ratings as they seem to fall off the bandwagon somewhere along the way.
What is the actual percentage of UND and Riddle grads that don't actually get into aviation? The number is startlingly high. I think a UND grad once told me it was around 60% of professional aviation graduates don't pursue an airline job. That may be complete hearsay...
There is no reason that a competent, averagely intelligent and reasonably well adjusted person with decent social skills should not be able to succeed at the airline level, particularly so in today's hiring environment.
I have seen a couple of good pilots work their way through flight instruction, finally get a regional job, fail out of training, and move on to other careers; people who could easily have made it if they had chose more wisely instead of taking the first job offered. I have interviewed prospective CFIs that will not get hired as a CFI anywhere no matter what... precluding any run at an airline. This is usually an attitude issue or the result of having been deluded by a ratings mill who stole their money and kicked them out the door without a job. I have seen pilots fail out of IOE at one airline who have a job at another next week and are happily flying the line safely and professionally.
In the 1500 hours I spent as an instructor there were certainly students that had invested a significant amount of time and money in hopes of becoming airline pilots who had very little if any chance of ever doing so. The reasons varied from personality problems, drinking problems, surprise-I'm-pregnant, financial opportunity, self-defeat, intelligence, immaturity, realistic goal setting, health, buying a Camero... The list obviously goes on. I think this is to say that there are some people who will not be airline pilots no matter how bad they want it. Most of these don't make it to the more advanced ratings as they seem to fall off the bandwagon somewhere along the way.
What is the actual percentage of UND and Riddle grads that don't actually get into aviation? The number is startlingly high. I think a UND grad once told me it was around 60% of professional aviation graduates don't pursue an airline job. That may be complete hearsay...
There is no reason that a competent, averagely intelligent and reasonably well adjusted person with decent social skills should not be able to succeed at the airline level, particularly so in today's hiring environment.
08-21-2007, 11:27 AM
#6
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
This is my experience with a career success rate.
Every person I know that has been motivated, hardworking, ambitious and busted their butt has gotten anywhere from a decent to excellent pilot job. I have noticed a direct correlation between motivation and where people end up.
When I started at the commuters, we had 9 of us in our new hire class. This was 9 years ago. One guy washed out. I don't know what ever happened to him. Here is where the others are:
Three at AirTran.
One at JetBlue.
One at Southwest.
One is a sim instructor for Flight Safety (I don't know how great of a job this is but he seems to like it).
One is at UPS.
Shoot. I can't remember the last guy but I know he is at a somewhat decent airline.
Every person I know that has been motivated, hardworking, ambitious and busted their butt has gotten anywhere from a decent to excellent pilot job. I have noticed a direct correlation between motivation and where people end up.
When I started at the commuters, we had 9 of us in our new hire class. This was 9 years ago. One guy washed out. I don't know what ever happened to him. Here is where the others are:
Three at AirTran.
One at JetBlue.
One at Southwest.
One is a sim instructor for Flight Safety (I don't know how great of a job this is but he seems to like it).
One is at UPS.
Shoot. I can't remember the last guy but I know he is at a somewhat decent airline.
08-21-2007, 12:44 PM
#8
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Don't judge a career by other's failures. If you want it--go get it.
I flew F-15s and currently fly for Fedex. I also got turned down for my first CFI job. I took an extra quarter at Auburn to graduate and had to wait an extra 8 months to go to UPT without a job. I didnt' get an F-15 out of pilot training--I got an OV-10. Later I had my F-15 assignment moved, cancelled, and changed multiple times. I did not get a second follow on F-15 assignment (at first) but was extended to have another shot. I could not get hired by Delta in 1995 (didn't really have the time or contacts) and the FedEx guy in ANC told me I needed more time but could "throw boxes a while and see what happens...". I didn't get told I was hired by the ANG until about 5 months before I separated from the AF. Once again....when I got out in 2001/02 Delta was not hiring. FedEx DID hire me, but cancelled my class after 9/11 and I had no idea when I would start--but suspected the wait would be several months.
Point to all this "me" talk? There is a lot of "nope", "not yet", "not now", "thanks but no thanks" in that story. There is also a whole lot of the FIDO (F--- it, drive on!) philosophy too. At my airline, there are tons of guys who took a long, wandering path to get to where they are now. Focus on your goals, keep moving towards them every day, keep an open mind and a positive attitude...and enjoy the journey. I had no idea 10 years ago I'd be where I am now, but I had a vision of some "similar" things I wanted, and I kept moving.
Just remember--somebody is going to be flying that F-15/F-22/777/747/787 in 10 years. Why not you?
I flew F-15s and currently fly for Fedex. I also got turned down for my first CFI job. I took an extra quarter at Auburn to graduate and had to wait an extra 8 months to go to UPT without a job. I didnt' get an F-15 out of pilot training--I got an OV-10. Later I had my F-15 assignment moved, cancelled, and changed multiple times. I did not get a second follow on F-15 assignment (at first) but was extended to have another shot. I could not get hired by Delta in 1995 (didn't really have the time or contacts) and the FedEx guy in ANC told me I needed more time but could "throw boxes a while and see what happens...". I didn't get told I was hired by the ANG until about 5 months before I separated from the AF. Once again....when I got out in 2001/02 Delta was not hiring. FedEx DID hire me, but cancelled my class after 9/11 and I had no idea when I would start--but suspected the wait would be several months.
Point to all this "me" talk? There is a lot of "nope", "not yet", "not now", "thanks but no thanks" in that story. There is also a whole lot of the FIDO (F--- it, drive on!) philosophy too. At my airline, there are tons of guys who took a long, wandering path to get to where they are now. Focus on your goals, keep moving towards them every day, keep an open mind and a positive attitude...and enjoy the journey. I had no idea 10 years ago I'd be where I am now, but I had a vision of some "similar" things I wanted, and I kept moving.
Just remember--somebody is going to be flying that F-15/F-22/777/747/787 in 10 years. Why not you?
08-21-2007, 01:10 PM
#10
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Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
I like Tomgoodman's points about the guys he knew that didn't make it and why. Like I said at another thread, the process weeds people out who don't belong. It can be a brutal thing, as Skyhigh loves to point out to all of us, but, the vast majority who stick with it are successful.
Success means different things to different people. For example, Skyhigh wouldn't try to get a job at Southwest because it doesn't fit his lifestyle. Now, if one is going to be that choosey, then one may find himself "weeded out". I hear people say "I'll only work for UPS", or "I'll only work for Alaska Air". Well, when you limit your options like that, you're much less likely to meet your career goals.
I had pretty low expectations, all in all, when I entered the career. Much of that was due to no internet and not knowing anyone in the career. Plus, my uncorrected vision was, at the time, a limiting factor for many of the best airlines. I think I'd have been happy as a local charter pilot or working at a third level freight operation flying Boeings.
Success means different things to different people. For example, Skyhigh wouldn't try to get a job at Southwest because it doesn't fit his lifestyle. Now, if one is going to be that choosey, then one may find himself "weeded out". I hear people say "I'll only work for UPS", or "I'll only work for Alaska Air". Well, when you limit your options like that, you're much less likely to meet your career goals.
I had pretty low expectations, all in all, when I entered the career. Much of that was due to no internet and not knowing anyone in the career. Plus, my uncorrected vision was, at the time, a limiting factor for many of the best airlines. I think I'd have been happy as a local charter pilot or working at a third level freight operation flying Boeings.
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