chazbird

Lately I make it a casual project of mine to ask people, when they find out I'm a pilot, what they think a new first year pilot makes - typically prefacing it with "you know, flying one of those smaller jets". Its usually, "oh, 65,000". Today my bank teller said: "100,000?" When they are duly informed these people are not smirking like pilots deserve low wages but instead are pretty shocked. Just like the weather adage weather everyone agrees something is seriously wrong but no one is doing anything about it. Things like contracts being 2-5 years past due is just pathetic. I know Americans are supposed to be strong willed and all that good 'ol stuff but European (or Australian) labor, in general, doesn't take it sitting down. I applaud when I see Argentinians taking to the street to try and fix economic injustice. It may or may not be very effective but at least they are doing something.

I too have thought of a single day when a huge percentage of US flights didn't fly - if passengers flying for medical reasons weren't put out - I'd be all for it. By and large the media would be all over it of course, saying the pilots who make 130,000 a year are sitting at home because they can't "work" more than a 100 hours a month, which of course would cause seething resentment. ("Why that's $108 an hour!") One of the great tragedies is how terrible nearly all media in this country have become. A second tragedy is how poorly the pilot unions represent pilots as a whole, and how poorly the pilot unions represent pilots to the general populace so they won't believe pilots live the life of Riley. (or some more modern term, slackers?). A less slacker media and a less slacker union would begin to make pilots economic woes a lot easier to resolve.

sigep_nm

All this energy wasted on a forum board. How many of you are actually active in your union, and by active I dont mean just paying your shop fees. How many have actually met any of their union reps (indoc doesnt count). If you really want to make a difference get active in the process and dont just assume that your union is working to its full potential. Lets face it, at the regional level people are leaving and will be leaving fast, and with that goes union experience. Learn the process, and learn how to change the process for the better. Pounding a keyboard after a late night of flying does nothing to foster change. Find what YOU think is unacceptable about your current contract, find a viable and resonable alternative to the current terms and present it in a professional manner to your union rep, and dont accept no as answer. Lets face it, its a business, and we wont get everything that we want from our respective companies, but if we can find things that we will not settle for (pay, etc) then at least we can fight like hell for those. I would venture to say that most new regional FO's dont know much about their contract, so take the time to read and learn it, it will only make you a stronger asset for your union, and your fellow pilot group. Maybe I dont know what the hell I am talking about, but thats my two cents

flaps 9

So true!!!!!!!!!

XJPILOT1

Fight like hell? If ALPA pulled the contract strings equally (major, Regionals) then we can begin the fight. Regionals compete for contracts for the majors but some regionals have loose work rules or pay scales and those regionals win the flying contract. This whipsaw effect goes in cycles. Major pilots screaming at the regional pilots to "hang tough" and "grow some". Easy if you're making $113 + an hour. Seems the guys at the top forget about the struggle on the bottom. The lack of resources a 20 something new hire has over a veteran Jet Jock. If our company (NWA) throws us some E175 or E195 down the line should we say no thanks, that's not for us. I doubt any and all NWA guys would have done the same when they were bottom feeders. How quickly we forget.

I enjoy doing what I do so I'm not going to ruin it for me or my family. When the day comes when it's time to move the pay and work rules up a notch I'll be pushing hard. But, cut out the rhetoric and slave labor comparisons. It's getting old...fast!!

sigep_nm

Never once did I state something about rhetoric or slave labor. I dont feel we work for slave labor, but I also dont feel like 'fighting like hell' involves moaning and complaining on a message board. WE do however need to figure out what it is that WE want, and no it cant be everything. My point is to find what you are willing to work for, and what you are willing to sacrifice. The majors have nothing to do with our situation and I will never blame a major for what is going on at the regional level. By the way ALPA is here to represent you and your specific pilot group, that is why you pay your union dues. Will you really push hard? Just in case you didnt notice our contract negotiations can start less than a year from now. Better start thinking about how hard you are going to push.

FliFast

I don't make as much as a janitor during my first year at UPS. But I knew this before I came to work here and made a plan to get thru the first year...this male dancer gig at night is killing me...only a few more months.

Oldfreightdawg

I assuming this is a rhetorical question? Most legacies, or any carrier would perish before they could replace that many pilots. On the other hand, such an effort to resign en mass would require an organized effort, presumably on the part of the union. Such an effort under the RLA is a violation of status quo, and therefore illegal. Might as well wildcat strike, it would end with the same results.

captjns

Most airlines Flight Operations Training Manuals’ contain reduced training curricula. Pilots who have flown the same type aircraft, as they will with the new carrier, within the preceding 24 calendar months qualify for such training.

The period from Basic Indoctrination to the PC can run as low as 2 weeks…. the 25 hour line training requirement can be by 1 hour for every landing, thus another week. Classroom is not the problem… its simulator, aircraft line training and checking do to lack of manpower and also the FAA observation ride for captains as may be required by some POIs. Some of the higher time airmen would probably be trained as captains and check airmen right out of the box which would help out with the bottleneck.

Also, depending on how hands-on the airlines’ POI is, they may wish to review the resumes of those potential airmen chosen for the reduced training to ensure quality control.

Thedude

That is because when most of the senior guys were hired, the commuters didn't really exist. I have flown with more than one Delta early outter that never really had to struggle and they have only known good times, boy did they have a shock when they started flying at the supplementals.

Oldfreightdawg

Well maybe , maybe not. You're right about regionals not being around. So for us civilian guys there was flight instruction or hauling canceled checks in a 210 without heat. If I could have flown a jet right out of college with only 500TT, it would have been great. Seems like a pretty good gig to me.

I think the senior guys understand just fine, it's the reason for scope clauses.