I got a kick out your avatar Gretzsky. I was in Kazakstan last week and we kept asking the locals where we can find, "sexy time"..ha ha ha.

Hope the staffing problems get ironed out before the traditional Flu season.

Ok, sorry to interupt..I'll head back to delivering rubber poo poo to Hong Kong.

FF

Once enough new hires have gone to the ER to fill out the reserve staffing, they will stop sending new hires. The very first few new hires to get the ER may end up with a line, but I would not count on it below that level. There are all kinds of pilots hired prior to 07 who are just waiting till they can hold a line before they bid the ER. Movement for new hires on the ER will be very, very slow.

The last AE bid didn't result in many pilots bidding the ER. In fact more guys bid out of it than into it. That is why they had to put new hires there.

I don't expect to see many pilots bid to the ER until the International pay improves. $3 per hour and a few cents extra per diem doesn't make the ER very attractive. The strong Euro vs the weak Dollar make it a money losing proposition.

For pilots who want to live in NY it's a great option, but commuting to JFK even as a lineholder is a headache. I would expect to see pilots bid the 777 in NYC because of the pay, but the ER isn't worth it until the situation at JFK gets worked out.

For most it's better to bid a domestic 757/767 out of ATL. Lots of new hires on that airframe as well, so pre 07 hires should have a chance at a line there as well. Especially when the new hires in NYC bid back to domestic in ATL.

How is the reserve on 7er in JFK? How much do you actually fly?
Crashpads nearby? Can I get around without a car?
What seniority is the most junior line holder?

can't answer the rest, but looks like the junior line holder for Nov was an October 2000 hire, roughly 6200 on the list.

You will probably get a crashpad in Kew Gardens and yes, you can get around without a car. I actually prefered the trains. The only problem with the bus, the Q10 I think, is during off peak hours, you might wait upwards of one hour. From like 5am to 10 am, however, the Q10 runs every 15 minutes or so. They taper off until rush hour with maybe two per hour, and back up to peak schedule for rush hour. There are plenty of grocery stores, produce stands, and cleaners within walking distance from just about any where in Q gardens.

As far as seniority, I'm not to certain on that one ... I believe if you have 12 hour long call, you can probably sit at home if you live within a 3 hour flight of JFK AND have the frequency of flights you need to get to work. You can reserve the Delta jumpseat ... first come first serve UNLESS the Feds show up needing to get to that rendezvous, oops, I meant OFFICIAL meeting. It happens, but not enough to mess up your plans. IF you are assigned shortcall the day before you come to work, you will have to go in the night before to make your short call.

Only problem with the ER is most guys LOVE it and it goes fairly senior. The operation is wonderful. The hard part about flying the er is bidding down to the 88 to get to ATL or someplace near home. Being Jr. on the 88 is like being at the regionals. You can plan on at least one five leg day every other week on reserve, MAYBE. You may lay over at the Sherry Frontenac with two leg days, there's no rhyme or reason. If it were me, knowing what I know now, I'd stay on the ER until I can hold it or the 76/75 someplace closer to home unless you have to be home right away. 88 F/O is hands down the busiest job at Delta and for that reason alone, you will gain seniority quickly.

I can't tell you about the schedules. Sorry. I hope this helps, and as usual, if I'm wrong I'm certain to be corrected. :) Good luck.

Tom

Xray and Tom, thank you for your help.

Another question:
What exactly is the short call? Is it "as soon as practical" or defined time i.e. 2-3 hours to check in or push?
What if you are trying to make it and the traffic/weather is bad? Did it happened to anyone and what are the consequences?
Sorry this one is from my wife.
Thx

Short call is 2 hours. I can't help you with the rest.

Tom

Used to be,in the OLDE days, the first "no show" was on the company, the 2nd one was usually a month off with NO pay and the 3rd was the door.

I want to expand on what Tom said. Short call is generally accepted to be 2 hours. But, it is not defined in the contract. I believe the wording in the contract is promptly available. So in NYC, depending on the time of day, the schedulers recognize that traffic may mean it takes you three hours. Do you live in the NYC area? If not, pretty much all the standard crash pad areas will have you to the airport in 2 hours.

What are all the standard crash pad areas I should be thinking of for JFK? What's the best way to go about finging a crash pad? I'm not familiar with the New York area at all.

Never been trained at Delta, but I bet there will be a lot of info available during training. Typically fliers at the training center and in the crew rooms.

Thanks.
No, I am not from the NY area. Planning on crashpadding without a car :(

There are a few fliers on the bulletin boards. The ALPA online message boards are also good. If you know anyone at JetBlue, they're also a good source.

Tom,
So there are trains AND buses to get to JFK from Kew Gardens?
Thanks a lot

Kew gardens is where most of the crash pads I have heard about are located. Some of the 88 guys flying the shuttle have crash pads walking distance from the Marine Air Terminal, but that does not apply to guys on the ER.

Just buses. You have easy access to the trains to the city. Oh, and car services. It's been a while since I've been there. I don't know how the air train plays into things. When I was there last, they spoke of a stop on the F line (if memory serves) to connect with the Air Train. Check into it.

718-330-1234 is the MTA. Tell them where you are and where you want to go and they will assemble your route.

http://www.hopstop.com/ is a website to do the same. Like most map web sites, you have to know the departure address and you can put in JFK or LGA. I hope this helps. Let me know.

Tom

I am currently a Delta ER pilot at JFK and have a crashpad in Kew Gardens.
The MTA bus (Q10) goes from term. 4 JFK to Kew Gardens. If you buy a Metrocard it's $10 for 12 trips. They have an express service called the limited that will get you to JFK in 20-25 min, regular service 35-45 min. I have used the bus as early as 0500 and as late as 2330 and have never waited more than 10 min.

On short call the "readily available" clause can mean different times for different places and weather. There are guys sitting call in the Philly area and have no problems. Add snow etc. and everything changes.

ps. Terminal 4 at JFK is next to Delta's terminal (if can call it that).

I'm also a a NYC ER guy and I'll add this. I'm a January 01 hire and can't hold a line yet. I might hold one in Dcember, I'm right on the bubble. However; I've been in this category for 6 months now and have been to my crash pad 3 times. That's mainly because we were so short of people during the summer that you were flying all the time and got your trips assigned to you the day before your reserve started. Now that things are slowing down and they are getting some bodies up here, that is obviously changing. Hard to tell what next busy season will bring. Lots of new destinations. Will we be adequately staffed? I wish I knew.

Also, to correct an earlier post. If you get short call, you don't have to come up the night before. Scheduling starts all of our short calls at 1300L. Makes since since all of our report times (except one) are afternoon, say from 1530 ish on. So as long as you can get there by 1300 (and really by 1500 because you can commute in for the first two hours of your short call per the contract) you are good.

Finally, a previous poster was right, guys love the category, but they hate commuting to reserve especially in NYC. So what you find is that every time you start getting close to a line, a new AE comes out and a bunch of guys senior to you bid into the category because now they can hold a line. So what you see is a big differece up there in seniority between line holder and reserve.

Of course the new AE that's out with the all the new categories will shake things up but your guess is as good as mine as to how it will pan out.

...king in the castle, king in the castle...

high fighee...

Just curious where are some common trips the JFK 7ER reserves are covering?
Places and lengths of the trips?

What is the usual block per month ... summer vs rest of the year?
How many times a month are you typically called up ... short call vs long call?

Additionally - what are the short call and long call response times? Do you employ a seniority based reserve system or first in first out? Thanks

short call is not defined, I think the contract says something like "prompty available." However, it is generally accepted to be two hours. Long call is a 12 hour call out.

The reserve trip assignment process is based on a score, called the RAW score. Stands for reserve assignment weighting or some nonsense like that. Anyway, its basically a score showing how much you have flown. When it comes time to give out trips, the pilot with the lowest RAW score is given the trip.

From the PWA:

--

Hope that clears it up. I am anticipating a steep curve learning to work the Delta system...

The trips during the summer were all over the place. We pretty much got some of everything: ATH, TXL, VCE, NCE, IST etc... you name it, we got it. I saw a guy get a 6 day Moscow "green slip". I know that doesn't mean much if your not familiar with our PWA, but that's pretty huge. The reason again though, is because we were so short of pilots. Whenever someone called in sick his trip went into open time and it had to be covered, usually for the next day. Not that that procedure is any different now, it's just that it's spread out over alot more available reserve pilots and the schedule is dialed back for the off season.

Typically what's left after all is said and done are the following: Manchester, Dublin, London, Shannon and the 4 day Accra (Ghana that is). These always end up there for basically 2 reasons:

1) With the exception of ACC they are the lowest time trips.

2) Because of the flight times less than 8 hours they are 2 man crews. No relief guy = No break.

The 4 day ACC ends up there because you spend 48 hours in Ghana and let's just say that Hawaii it ain't. The hotel is tolerable and you can safely get out in the town with other crew. However; when we start Lagos, Nigeria......well.......not..so..much......

At any rate, a reserve will see more than his/her fair share of these 5 places. The UK places are pretty nice layovers though. Good pubs and such at all, although the exhange rate is killing your dollar to Guiness ratio.

As far as the usual block per month, it's really hard to say. In the summer I was one of those guys who was trying to make hay while the sun shines by green slipping, so I may not represent a fair average. Mind you I never actually flew more than about 70 to 75 hrs a month but I probably averaged around 110 hours of pay per month (best was 146). If you don't try to manipulate your schedule at all and just sit and wait on the call, you'll still fly right up to the 70 - 75 hour range. It's all a matter of whether you can be flexible with your days off changing to get you into the premium pay action. Right now I haven't flown since late October and am not scheduled to again until Dec 22, but that's by design (vacation and such), so it's hard for me to say what the "norm" is right now.

All I'll say about the short call thing is that it's what makes reserve suck the most if you are a commuter, which most in NY are. There is a formula but basically they can put you on it 8 times a month, and they will. Let's say you start with a 31 day month. Your reserve line has 12 days off, so now you're down to 19 days. You're going to fly at least a couple of trips so let's say that they are 4 days. Now your down to 11 days. Of those 11 days, 8 can and probably will be short call. Scheduling seems to use the mentality of "what do we care if we really don't need 13 guys on short call today. We can do it, so we will do it. So sometimes you'll end up hauling your ass up there to sit a 24 short call when you know that the odds are astronomical against you getting used. But that's just how it is. What can I say, it's nothing new that commuting to reserve sucks. Realize though that this is for a properly staffed situation, as I said in an earlier post I've only actually had to go sit a short call 3 times this summer because we were always getting trips and by flying on my days off (in my personal situation, which days I had off didn't matter) I never really left them with an opportunity to short call me.

Probably as clear as mud but hopefully helps some..

Jay5150,
Starting 400s on Friday...Domestic OE in December...220/221 on 21/22 Dec and TOE to follow. By my calculations, 65+ dudes will be behind me in the ER (15 in Oct, 25 in Nov, 25 in Dec, ?? in Jan). Unless the number of reserve lines goes up from 37 that means lines for all my friends. Trying to get back to SLC (it's starting to snow!) but it is tempting to stay NYC and hold a line.

BTW...what is shadow bidding? Saw it on the bid packages somewhere.

I'd expect the number of reserves to grow from 37 to the mid 40s, since the category is growing in NYC. That still leaves lines for some very junior pilots though.

I would bet a lot of junior pilots end up bidding off the ER and going to something where they can be more senior.

Yeah, the way this category is growing it could be good. It's just hard to predict how many senior guys will bid onto it. You can get an idea by going into ecrew and looking under "advanced entitlement". There is an option that will tell you how many pilots senior to you have in a bid for a particular category. It's still just a rough idea though as it gives you all the guys even though your category may be their second or third or fourth choice. If they get their first choice, then they're not a factor.

I don't know what "shadow bidder" is. I saw that and wondered the same thing

I am hearing that opinion from alot of guys as well. Really no way to predict it but it wouldn't suprise me.

Also, when checking how many pilots senior to you have bids for the ER, realize that they may have qualifiers in them. 7ER in NYC if in the top 50%, not on reserve, etc... It's a good tool to make an educated guess, but not a sure thing. Stand by for the 20th to get the final answer.

Can't wait! Some time in the afternoon, right?
Thank you for all the good info!

NYC 7ER folks,

What do the junior lines look like i.e.
How many days off and whats the credit?

The line pilot need not concern himself with shadow bidding. It is a fictitious set of bid preferences usually reserved for mgmt sorts who don't fly much. Shadow bidders don't actually fly the trips awarded: they are "awarded" for pay purposes only. There might be a bit more to shadow bidding, but that is the essence of it.

Well.......

Viking... it is out, what is your question? Not that many people bid out of the ER - was that your question?

We've got answers, if you got questions.

What BB said.

Bottom line is that there was a ton of movement and that there are still gaping holes for NYC 88's and NYC ER's. 767 ATL became more senior.

Well, I prolly have more questions than I care to type and you care to read. I am in the Dec 3rd class and ANY news is of high interest. I.e. where the movement is going, is our class still going to be all ER's, what is the chances of holding a ER spot in ATL in the near future, how long are we talking reserve ER in ATL, NYC, LAX.... All info is good info!

Probably all ER, from what I know. Maybe even the next class in Jan.

You will not be able to bid back to ATL until the next AE, which should be in the beginning of March (I think). Junior ATL ER pilot is 71xx. Don't know exactly. So its possible. Likely??? Dunno. This AE had a great deal of movement because of the establishment of new categories. May not be the case on subsequent AE's. The nice part about the NYC ER, however, is that you can bid for atl767 as well as atl7er without having to go through training again and without a seatlock.

I'll be converted to ATL ER's following the latest AE. Personally, I plan on being on reserve until I can hold Capt. Its a senior seat, period. NYC ER is far more junior at the tail end of the list, for your class if you stay there, maybe a year to be a junior line holder/ maybe six months. They should be putting more newhires on that seat now that the AE came up so short...so that could work out for you.

If anything, it would be better for all of you in the Dec 3rd class if there was some variety of airframes available, but I don't think that will be the case.

Long and short of it is that there isn't a bad seat for newhires right now. Anyone who tells you differently is selling you something. We plan on hiring solid numbers next year and you no longer have to fly sideways as a newhire...life is good. Until oil starts kicking our collective ass. Hopefully, this time around the entire industry is smart enough to simply pass the costs on directly to the consumer.

Have fun in indoc.