Delta pilots likely to OK pay deal
12-29-2005, 04:23 AM
#11
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"delta pilots are rediculously overpaid when you look at the rest of the majors.
dallas morning news had an article a few years ago. swa senior captain made 178k, american made 250 or so, continental comperable, then delta made 330 or so."
Dear "aspiring Pilot":
I can't believe that you actually are stupid enough to believe what you read about pilot (or any airline employee salary) in the paper!!!!!!! 99.9% of the time the "facts" are slanted so far in management's favor (because they control virtually all the press releases) that the truth is never there. You mention that the dallas morning news had an article "a few years ago".....that's just it: A FEW YEARS AGO!!! Under Delta's old payscale we did have captains making over 300K. Now with our just agreed to additional paycut a senior 777 captain will make $186/hr, so might reach $200K a year with some overtime. A senior Southwest captain is at $190/hr flying an airplane half the size.
I just found an article this morning where some industry pundit (he's even a pilot for United) is STILL quoting how much Delta pilots made under our 2001 contract, mentioning that in 2004 senior Delta pilots made ove $300K/year. Not much emphasis on the date of 2004 though, no mention of our 50% compensation cut last November, and little credit of our 15% cut yesterday. Talk about being slanted in management's favor. Now anyone reading that article still thinks "senoir Delta overpaid prima-donnas make over 300K!!!!" and once again the public is even more against us.
If you truly are an "aspiring pilot", and this aspiration includes being an airline pilot, I truly hope that you gather FACTS, not fiction, and draw your conclusions on that before you make comments like "delta pilots are rediculously overpaid". It is definitely NOT the "work 5 days a month to make a six figure salary" job that you and probably most of the public thinks it is.
dallas morning news had an article a few years ago. swa senior captain made 178k, american made 250 or so, continental comperable, then delta made 330 or so."
Dear "aspiring Pilot":
I can't believe that you actually are stupid enough to believe what you read about pilot (or any airline employee salary) in the paper!!!!!!! 99.9% of the time the "facts" are slanted so far in management's favor (because they control virtually all the press releases) that the truth is never there. You mention that the dallas morning news had an article "a few years ago".....that's just it: A FEW YEARS AGO!!! Under Delta's old payscale we did have captains making over 300K. Now with our just agreed to additional paycut a senior 777 captain will make $186/hr, so might reach $200K a year with some overtime. A senior Southwest captain is at $190/hr flying an airplane half the size.
I just found an article this morning where some industry pundit (he's even a pilot for United) is STILL quoting how much Delta pilots made under our 2001 contract, mentioning that in 2004 senior Delta pilots made ove $300K/year. Not much emphasis on the date of 2004 though, no mention of our 50% compensation cut last November, and little credit of our 15% cut yesterday. Talk about being slanted in management's favor. Now anyone reading that article still thinks "senoir Delta overpaid prima-donnas make over 300K!!!!" and once again the public is even more against us.
If you truly are an "aspiring pilot", and this aspiration includes being an airline pilot, I truly hope that you gather FACTS, not fiction, and draw your conclusions on that before you make comments like "delta pilots are rediculously overpaid". It is definitely NOT the "work 5 days a month to make a six figure salary" job that you and probably most of the public thinks it is.
12-29-2005, 05:16 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: B737, Capt.
Posts: 384
....Not much emphasis on the date of 2004 though, no mention of our 50% compensation cut last November, and little credit of our 15% cut yesterday....
If you truly are an "aspiring pilot", and this aspiration includes being an airline pilot, I truly hope that you gather FACTS, not fiction, and draw your conclusions on that before you make comments like "delta pilots are rediculously overpaid". It is definitely NOT the "work 5 days a month to make a six figure salary" job that you and probably most of the public thinks it is.
If you truly are an "aspiring pilot", and this aspiration includes being an airline pilot, I truly hope that you gather FACTS, not fiction, and draw your conclusions on that before you make comments like "delta pilots are rediculously overpaid". It is definitely NOT the "work 5 days a month to make a six figure salary" job that you and probably most of the public thinks it is.
12-29-2005, 06:33 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
Re the 32.5% vs. 50%- the pay cut was 32.5, but the total value of the contract went from $2 billion to about $1 billion (50%). Same with the 14/15%. (Preferential bidding was one of the big non-pay concessions last year.)
I'm not sure if we'll get hosed in March, but I think we'll have a better strategic position then. If you account for the non-voters (incomprehensible, in my opinion), less than 50% voted for this T/A. We'll have some clout at the bargaining table if enough guys are willing to walk away from Delta. I am.
Is ALPA letting us down? Yes, but they don't have alot of bargaining power when a company is in this position. I've never been convinced that we get our money's 'woerth' for the added dues money for ALPA nat'l, but we need to be covered under ALPA merger policy for the next year or two.
I'm not sure if we'll get hosed in March, but I think we'll have a better strategic position then. If you account for the non-voters (incomprehensible, in my opinion), less than 50% voted for this T/A. We'll have some clout at the bargaining table if enough guys are willing to walk away from Delta. I am.
Is ALPA letting us down? Yes, but they don't have alot of bargaining power when a company is in this position. I've never been convinced that we get our money's 'woerth' for the added dues money for ALPA nat'l, but we need to be covered under ALPA merger policy for the next year or two.
12-29-2005, 06:49 AM
#14
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Posts: n/a
SWAcapt said: "If you're trying to educate this ignorant youngster as to the FACTS, aren't the numbers you quoted a little off?"
No, not off at all. We did take a 32.5% paycut, but that was just the pay side. The other items we gave, and they were many, brought it up to about 50%. I'm surprised that your Delta pilot buddy didn't mention that, as some of these were worth more than pay in many eyes. Another fact that management has always left out of their arguments in terms of pilot costs is that before Sept 11th we had over 10,000 active pilots on the payroll. We now have approx. 6300, over 1/3 less, making less than half they used to. Of course, we can't account for these cost savings, dontcha know.
No, not off at all. We did take a 32.5% paycut, but that was just the pay side. The other items we gave, and they were many, brought it up to about 50%. I'm surprised that your Delta pilot buddy didn't mention that, as some of these were worth more than pay in many eyes. Another fact that management has always left out of their arguments in terms of pilot costs is that before Sept 11th we had over 10,000 active pilots on the payroll. We now have approx. 6300, over 1/3 less, making less than half they used to. Of course, we can't account for these cost savings, dontcha know.
12-29-2005, 09:14 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: B737, Capt.
Posts: 384
Thanks for the clarification guys. I can see the disparity in the two figures. I only asked my friend what the pecentage of the pay cuts were, not total compensation. I agree also that one should look at what total payroll was with everyone on the property and what it is now (post Dec. 28th) to get a real accurate picture. I bet the guys on furlough would say they've taken a pay cut...like 100%. You guys have really taken it in the shorts and I wish you the best in March.
02-07-2006, 01:27 PM
#19
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Posts: n/a
If they can negotiate something, we then must approve it. If they can't negotiate something that we can approve, then I presume our contract will be thrown out- and that there will be some sort of subsequent job action. I don't know about the rest of the Delta pilots, but I'm not working without a contract or any reasonable scheduling rules/sick leave. The threat of an impending job action in light of a contract rejection will probably cause enough book aways to seriously hamper Delta's liquidity. Then the company can go into Chapter 7 and die a quicker death. Probably be a curse for half the guys and a blessing to the other half. I just haven't figured out which group I will fall in yet. How bout you guys?
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