Well put, 767, and I might add that some of the flying tasks they perform are not easy but they manage somehow.

No, they hired Flight Engineers who sat sideways for a decade or so watching, working with, and learning from seasoned pilots before they were entrusted with flight controls.

Maybe at UAL...I wouldn't know.

But I can tell you that wasn't the case at TWA in the 60's. Some hired in the very late 60's (68' 69' & one class or two in 1970) spent decades on the F/E panel due to furloughes and stagnation brought on by the energy crunch and TWA's management being distracted by the creation of TWA Corp.

On the other hand, I can even remember a handful who were hired at TWA in the early 60's and were not old enough to obtain a F/E rating so they were put in the right seat.
Constellation-era.

I was very fortunate in that I had to "Check Essential" only for a year.

But I do agree the F/E seat and/or the IRO seat is the best seat in the house to observe, learn, or to point and laugh.

FF

Thank God the FAA required that.

I believe you may be confusing the late 60's with the early '60s. I flew with a few guys at TWA who were hired into the 707 with very little flight time... others got the connie. How cool is that?

707 panel or window seat? The guys of that era that i know from both carriers spent years as FE's. Maybe some where lucky. And the Connie, yes too cool. The old guy that gave me my SAAB checkride at Eagle years ago had a Connie type rating. I was going on about how cool it was and he said "that in today's world having a connie type was like knowing how to give a dinosaur an enima..... neither one of them does you any good.":D

nevermind............

It was a window seat... early 60'=fast capt... mid 60's meant forever FO... and late 60's early 70's meant forever FE... but early 60's didn't get stuck on the panel, and many NEVER flew the panel. It wasn't some. It was a lot. Both UAL and TWA. The guys who got the connie were upset to get that. Everyone wanted to fly the 707, and the connie was seen as a lousy job. So the newhire 707 FOs didn't complain as much. Funny how that went.

The 'acceptable' level of experience is like religion and politics- many beliefs not as much hard fact. We could debate this infinitely and not bring anything new to an age old discussion. Fact is that some of the recent washouts at Spirit were not low-timers, quite the opposite. The most recent that I heard about was former Next-Gen 737 that just wasn't catching on to the Airbus.

A better way to steer this convo is why would a major resort to hiring these guys to begin with? I have my guesses, but I'd like some other input.

First off, I am a Riddle Alum.

Sure, everyone at Riddle can't get the golden ticket, but the university leadership tells it's new and prospective students that is works with the industry to not only provide the best possible training but also to provide job opportunities.

This should be seen as a good news story for those that paid big bucks for a name. If you add in these 8 slots and a bridge program here and a paid internship there, before you know it a lot of Riddle students are getting some good industry exposure and amazing job options.

I'm not saying that you can not go to FIT, UND, Purdue, or your local FBO and pay a lot less for similar training and the same ratings. The individual needs to approach a program and evaluate what they are getting for the money. The biggest draw is if the individual is motivated by a program, feels confident they are getting what they are paying for, and sees that the university is making good on its recruiting ploys.