Spirit and ERAU contract deal
03-31-2008, 02:37 PM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: in front of a computer screen
Posts: 712
"thats ridiculous. i got trained as a KC-10 copilot with around 300 TT, from an instructor pilot who had 1300 TT, and a Flight engineer that doesnt even know how to read approach plates. Picture that crew. And yes, steam gauges. Your theory holds no water my friend."
I'm sure the training on the KC-10 was just as intense as the bus type?
No t34, t1 or anything like that? right out of cessnas into the KC10..... yeah
Friend..
Like I said before, welcome aboard guys. I'm glad to see someone in aviation get a break
I'm sure the training on the KC-10 was just as intense as the bus type?
No t34, t1 or anything like that? right out of cessnas into the KC10..... yeah Friend..
Like I said before, welcome aboard guys. I'm glad to see someone in aviation get a break
Last edited by shiftwork; 03-31-2008 at 03:08 PM.
03-31-2008, 02:51 PM
#73
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
FNG1,
I just want to be sure I understand the program. You get your instructor ratings (and presumably done some flight instruction -- maybe 400-500TT). Then, if you are one of the few, you get to be a ground instructor for two years (maybe sim time but no FLIGHT time). Then you GET to APPLY for a line position?
How about this idea:
Apply to an old fashioned regional (aka a commuter or trunk line). Fly the right seat of a 1900, Brasilia, Metro, or Saab for a year. Upgrade, THEN apply to Spirit.
Or:
Instruct a few more months and make more than starvation wages (the school I taught at is paying $29 an hour, 100 hours per month). Then fly 135 for a year.
Either way, you'd have 2000+ tt, eight seasons of flying, and have actual-sign-for-the-aircraft PIC time.
I just want to be sure I understand the program. You get your instructor ratings (and presumably done some flight instruction -- maybe 400-500TT). Then, if you are one of the few, you get to be a ground instructor for two years (maybe sim time but no FLIGHT time). Then you GET to APPLY for a line position?
How about this idea:
Apply to an old fashioned regional (aka a commuter or trunk line). Fly the right seat of a 1900, Brasilia, Metro, or Saab for a year. Upgrade, THEN apply to Spirit.
Or:
Instruct a few more months and make more than starvation wages (the school I taught at is paying $29 an hour, 100 hours per month). Then fly 135 for a year.
Either way, you'd have 2000+ tt, eight seasons of flying, and have actual-sign-for-the-aircraft PIC time.
03-31-2008, 03:06 PM
#74
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
Originally Posted by Breckster
I'm sure the training on the KC-10 was just as intense as the bus type?
Friend..
Friend..
03-31-2008, 03:09 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: in front of a computer screen
Posts: 712
Originally Posted by ghilis101
ummmm well ive never flown the bus, but I would venture to say that a V1 cut in heavy DC-10-30 maxing out at 590,000 lbs is probably almost as "intense" as it is in a fully loaded A320. so yes these "kids" will have no problem at spirit
you never answered me about going backwards into something like a dc9 though?
03-31-2008, 03:19 PM
#76
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
ok the 300TT came from pilot training in smaller high performance air force airplanes, and some of my brand new instructors there had only about 500TT. how the heck did that prepare me to fly a DC-10? these guys at riddle im sure get jet sim time dont they? thats just as good for getting used to the "sim" characteristics of a medium size jet.
im just saying, i disagree with you about thinking these guys are all doomed to failure. theyre going to do just fine. Can they go backwards into a DC-9? Well I dont know, lets ask all the NWA new hires who many of them were presumably CRJ/ERJ glass guys who are now flying the DC-9. Im sure theyre doing just fine.
You should not be upset with the ERAU guys. It was the company's decision to do something like this, so if you really feel its not right, what do you plan to do about it.
im just saying, i disagree with you about thinking these guys are all doomed to failure. theyre going to do just fine. Can they go backwards into a DC-9? Well I dont know, lets ask all the NWA new hires who many of them were presumably CRJ/ERJ glass guys who are now flying the DC-9. Im sure theyre doing just fine.
You should not be upset with the ERAU guys. It was the company's decision to do something like this, so if you really feel its not right, what do you plan to do about it.
03-31-2008, 06:42 PM
#77
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 66
I just want to be sure I understand the program. You get your instructor ratings (and presumably done some flight instruction -- maybe 400-500TT). Then, if you are one of the few, you get to be a ground instructor for two years (maybe sim time but no FLIGHT time). Then you GET to APPLY for a line position?
Having said that, this is not something that only Spirit is trying to do, I personally interviewed with Jet blue when they came to campus couple of months ago. Their program idea is to sign you up for 1 year as an instructor in ERAU, then go to cape air, fly 2 more years then a final interview with jet blue. Now, that program did not catch much attention among students because it meant not turbine time for 2 years in cape air, and the only thing Jet blue was offering was a final interview.----I was told during my interview that Jet blue was thinking in bringing Pinacle to the equation to make it more interesting to the students since is turbine time.
Right now they are working in other similar programs, in which they want to establish some kind of pipeline to the majors. We just had a conference called “creating a pilot pipeline” in which this subject was the main topic.
03-31-2008, 08:28 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Guppy Capt.
Posts: 1,887
Originally Posted by FNG1
Not really, the idea is that you graduate with an Aeronautical Science degree and get hired into the majors. Now, this Spirit deal is a test; what they are doing is seen if the academic preparation that you get in the school is enough to get you through an major airline training and then see how you do in the line.
Having said that, this is not something that only Spirit is trying to do, I personally interviewed with Jet blue when they came to campus couple of months ago. Their program idea is to sign you up for 1 year as an instructor in ERAU, then go to cape air, fly 2 more years then a final interview with jet blue. Now, that program did not catch much attention among students because it meant not turbine time for 2 years in cape air, and the only thing Jet blue was offering was a final interview.----I was told during my interview that Jet blue was thinking in bringing Pinacle to the equation to make it more interesting to the students since is turbine time.
Right now they are working in other similar programs, in which they want to establish some kind of pipeline to the majors. We just had a conference called “creating a pilot pipeline” in which this subject was the main topic.
Having said that, this is not something that only Spirit is trying to do, I personally interviewed with Jet blue when they came to campus couple of months ago. Their program idea is to sign you up for 1 year as an instructor in ERAU, then go to cape air, fly 2 more years then a final interview with jet blue. Now, that program did not catch much attention among students because it meant not turbine time for 2 years in cape air, and the only thing Jet blue was offering was a final interview.----I was told during my interview that Jet blue was thinking in bringing Pinacle to the equation to make it more interesting to the students since is turbine time.
Right now they are working in other similar programs, in which they want to establish some kind of pipeline to the majors. We just had a conference called “creating a pilot pipeline” in which this subject was the main topic.
03-31-2008, 08:30 PM
#79
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Originally Posted by FNG1
Having said that, this is not something that only Spirit is trying to do, I personally interviewed with Jet blue when they came to campus couple of months ago. Their program idea is to sign you up for 1 year as an instructor in ERAU, then go to cape air, fly 2 more years then a final interview with jet blue. Now, that program did not catch much attention among students because it meant not turbine time for 2 years in cape air, and the only thing Jet blue was offering was a final interview.----I was told during my interview that Jet blue was thinking in bringing Pinacle to the equation to make it more interesting to the students since is turbine time.
This JB plan sounds a whole lot like what a bunch of folks on this site have said, "go instruct, fly something little in the real world, then go to the big stuff." (I am not much of a JB fan, but if you are, go for it) The plan was what JB WANTED. But the ERAU students didn't like it, not because they didn't want JB, but because they were too proud to fly some itty bitty piston twin for Cape Air.
04-01-2008, 04:29 AM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: in front of a computer screen
Posts: 712
Originally Posted by ghilis101
ok the 300TT came from pilot training in smaller high performance air force airplanes, and some of my brand new instructors there had only about 500TT. how the heck did that prepare me to fly a DC-10? these guys at riddle im sure get jet sim time dont they? thats just as good for getting used to the "sim" characteristics of a medium size jet.
im just saying, i disagree with you about thinking these guys are all doomed to failure. theyre going to do just fine. Can they go backwards into a DC-9? Well I dont know, lets ask all the NWA new hires who many of them were presumably CRJ/ERJ glass guys who are now flying the DC-9. Im sure theyre doing just fine.
You should not be upset with the ERAU guys. It was the company's decision to do something like this, so if you really feel its not right, what do you plan to do about it.
im just saying, i disagree with you about thinking these guys are all doomed to failure. theyre going to do just fine. Can they go backwards into a DC-9? Well I dont know, lets ask all the NWA new hires who many of them were presumably CRJ/ERJ glass guys who are now flying the DC-9. Im sure theyre doing just fine.
You should not be upset with the ERAU guys. It was the company's decision to do something like this, so if you really feel its not right, what do you plan to do about it.
Never said they were "doomed" for failure. You have no time in the bus, correct? I can tell you that your flying skills will tend to go down(auto trim, auto thrust, auto land etc....), presuming you have any to start with: The bus seems/wants to be made to be flown through the AP.
There is a huge difference between uncle sams training compared to an ULCC's like NK's. There is nothing wrong with NK's just that it is probably set up for someone with prior jet or high performance experience.
Like I said before, glad to see someone has gotten a good deal in this bussiness; I'm sure they won't be leaving anytime soon and that has nothing to do with why they were hired.
What can I say, I'm just old school.
Last edited by shiftwork; 04-01-2008 at 04:47 AM.
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