Spirit and ERAU contract deal
 

For those who say is impossible jumping to a mayor right after college, this thread is for you. As part of a new program Spirit Airlines hired 8 Embry-Riddle students (recently graduated or graduating in December) to be line pilots for the A320.

I’m currently a CFI here in ERAU, and some of my colleges were among those hired. This has increased big time motivation in the school and interest in keep a good GPA (3.5 needed for this program)

The program was created after Spirit came last semester looking for flight instructors to teach their ground lab. The idea was to hire CFIs who would work for 2 years in their ground training, and then they would have the option to apply for a flying position. Only one person applied and was selected for that program. Once working in Spirit as a ground instructor, this person demonstrated good leadership and knowledge and when there was a need for pilots they selected her for pilot training, she passed everything flawless and it was then when they decided to come back to ERAU and look for pilots this time.

This program is a test program, where they are going to see how these 8 folks go through their training. If is successful like the previous ERAU graduate, then they said they will come back next semester.

Captains having to babysit FOs with 50 people in the back are bad enough. Now we see it with 120 in the back.

So Riddle now has another way to sell their overpriced program. Give us hundreds of thousands of dollars and if you're one of the lucky eight out of a couple hundred you get to fly a big bad Airbus. I'd love to know what the pilots at Spirit think of this.

Not to mention that there overpriced program dont teach none of them students proper grammar. :rolleyes:

That is easily the poorest written thing I have ever seen.

Aren't you the same guy who thinks you could be an astronaut with just a physics minor? Dream on dude. Most astronauts are military test pilots, or guys with PHD's in engineering. You must be one of the most brainwashed people I have ever come across. You are actually buying everything that ERAU tells you.

BTW, I agree with everyone else about the grammar. Concentrate on that first before trying to get hired at a major.

Seriously...if 10-15 kids at ERAU put their individual 100K together, they could buy a VLJ, hire a check airman, and run charters until they all had 1000 TPIC. At the end of the day it would involve less risk (i.e. no risk of being one of the 492/500 NOT selected to go to Spirit), be more fun, and probably make them better pilots (scary). Also they'd have a share of a jet at the end of the day, instead of the same FAA certificates for which everyone else paid a lot less.

Also, who is to say these 8 ERAUers didn't have close to the mins already? Maybe they weren't the typical ERAU grad (i.e. maybe they all already had lots of time from grandpa or daddy's plane).

I understand the euros do stuff like this all the time, but the US has plenty of qualified pilots who are much more qualified, and there is no need for this type of BS. I think the Spirit pilot group should do something about it.

I agree........and I'm not just saying that because I went to FIT....;)..But going from ANY flight school / college straight to a A319/320.....wow.....I don't know if that is such a great Idea.......

Hey Captain, can we do a fly-by over my mommy and daddys home?

How about 144/198 pax plus 3/4 FA's flying in and out of 3rd world countries like Guatamala City, Lima Peru, San Jose Costa Rica, Port-au Prince Haiti, etc in the Middle of the night?

This high quality protoge has admited, and I quote "I am in way over my head". She is also, its been told, going throught the program a second time.

Kim has been very humble as its been told, and realizes that what she is getting into is way over her head. I have also heard reports, however that the new batch of 8 are a bunch of arrogent asses and if they are not careful will permanently ruin the program for future Riddle Rockets.

As for my personal opinion I believe its possible to teach a monkey how to fly an A320 series A/C, however I think that given the type of flying we do at Spirit the lack of real world flying experience these Riddle pilots have will, if allowed to continue, create a very serious safety issue.

It still seems to be, at least from where I am scoping this out from is that paying your dues the old fashioned way produces better pilots, nine times out of ten. Not to knock any of the folks out at ERAU, but it's real world experience that seems to trump everything else. IMHO, the trick is to find the total package in that one individual who will sit in that right seat or left seat. The advent of these "zero to hero" programs come at a price, and we're just not talking about the mighty dollar either. Doesn't mean those folks who take that route are any less of pilots, but would you rather find this out in the air, or on the ground?

I for one, will do it the old fashioned way. Now, if I could just find the time to get the "do" done..

HerkFCC

I wrote this thread with the idea of expressing the enthusiasm that this kind of deals bring to campus. With my very limited fly experience I can't say if it is a good idea or not, but is definitely a moral booster to all college students here.

About the 8 guys going there, I can personally tell you that 4 of them (fellow CFIs) are very humble and professional people, and I think those reports of arrogance might be founded in the rejection that many people have about these kind of programs.

For those of you who criticized my English grammar, I can only tell you that I thank you for your opinions and that for future reference you do a better job as a leader by praising in public and criticizing in private; that is if you really want to be seem as a leader in this industry and not as another pure operator.

Erong
 

ERAU Alum here,

And I agree with all of you. I ate the "Harvard of the Skies" thing up when I was younger. I am still paying off the loans and loans and loans I took out. One of the worst decisions I made in my career was ERAU. (my fault for not researching it more)

If I knew what I was getting into I would have cleaned up all the classes I could at a local community college and then transfered into a state school and pursued a degree in something non-aviation related. I have already scratched my eye once very badly once but luckily it healed. I would still be a pilot today but just 80k ahead of the game.

ERAU and other flight universities may change their approach with ab initio but until that happens to the masses there is not a reason to spend that much money on a certificate.

ERAU is a nice place but you can learn just as much at many other flight schools.

There is an attitude amongst most ERAU grads. An uppity better than thou attitude. It doesn't involve everyone but there is a reason that it is WIDELY perceived about ERAU. That mass ideology doesn't come from being the most humble pilots.

Nothing measures a good pilot like a grade average.

It'll be great the first time she gets in the clouds. I can here it now, SWEEEET! With the right package anyone can get a job.

What kind of morals are they busting? If they're not careful they may have to come up with another scheme to boost morale.:rolleyes:

I'm glad that I was too dumb to be accepted to Riddle. 1.7 high school GPA here.

first u did'nt need to be a cfi and or military pilot to get to a regional now you don't need regional/military/135 to get to a major....I'm a Riddle grad surprised, I wish I can post more but I need to go back and continue writing checks out to Riddle for tuition.

wow, maybe they will let community college interns sit in the right seat next

...but only if it is an accredited community college or tech school, we wouldn't want to lower our standards too far! Peoples lives are at stake.

I'd love to hear more about program requirements and how this program is the same or different then internships at other airlines (UAL/NWA/TWA and some others). I realize this isn't an internship, but am curious how interns at other airlines who were given preferential interviews and got hired, fared once they got the required minimums.

I'd also like to hear a word or two from Spirit pilots.

At Focus Air Cargo (747F), we had a couple pilots hired who didn't have "heavy" time, but were hired and did a respectable job.

I am in agreement, that there is not a pilot shortage so as to prompt bypassing the professional pilot pool and search for applicants at the university level. However, with that said, maybe after all the sarcastic remarks and other hoop-de-doo, maybe we can find out some facts about the program.

Deleted........ resubmitted.

UPS hired a few 300 hour Purdue guys in the 90's. I don't know why exactly, maybe just to see if it could be done. Those guys did well and I can think of one that is a Z captain now. Actually he was on the seniority bubble for a while and has probably been a captain on most everything. I'm not applauding the Riddle program, just saying that it can be safely done. Hell, most of the majors in the 60's did it, some hiring private pilots and paying them to finish their tickets. Now THAT'S a pilot shortage!

hey more power to those kids for getting a shot at a seat like that. if they pass the pc and ioe and have constructive attitudes, there is no problem. i learned a lot slogging through imc in the DC3,but that type of education isn't as relevant as it used to be in a world where even 172's have glass.

Sure. It probably can be done safely. After 10 years of flying for UPS, he might have the same level of skill and experience as most new hires. However the question is, what happens if something goes wrong in those first 10 years? Should we all just cross our fingers?

Yep. A friend who taught for JAL told me once that as long as the emergency was cut and dry they could deal with it. Anything that might require more than reading a checklist verbatim or drawing on previous experience and you can kiss your ass good bye. Nice to know that instead of raising wages and work rules to attract more canidates we're just going to throw in newbies that can't even find their butts on a VMC day.

With enough time and money, anybody can learn to fly anything. When things become abnormal (engine, hydraulic, electrical failure, etc), thats when a true pilot emerges. Nothing can replace judgement, and that comes with actual FLYING experience.

What the fudge is a "ground lab"?! Are there beakers and Bunsen burners involved. What exactly is Spirit experimenting on/with?:rolleyes:

What I dont get is there are people with a few types, thousands of hours of 121 PIC and they dont even get called for a interview. I know a few that are still waiting for a interview at Spirit, yet they would rather get a Riddle wonder with no experiance? Guess that will guarente that they wont jump ship in a few months.

Apparently they are looking for RJ FO's with 1000 SIC or less, no TPIC, that's from the DoA. I can only put two and two together and assume they have high attrition and also want to do the Mesa thing where they hire low timers in order to push them around better.

A guy with 300 TT is gonna vote yes for a crappy contract, be intimidated, and want to hang around because he's got so much invested in the company. Someone with TPIC, a few types, and Airbus time is major material and will bail at the first opportunity.

Something about Spirit doesn't sit right with me. They could be losing hundreds of millions a year, we wouldn't know about it. That being said, if I had 300 hours TT and had to chose between a regional and Spirit, I know where I'd chose (Spirit). But for those with at least some experience, I wouldn't go there. Just my $0.02.

The difference was that in the 60's "private pilots" got hired and sat as an FE for many years before Upgrading to FO.

As I said earlier in this thread you can teach a monkey to fly just about anything. Its real world experience that makes the difference.

Not a Mesa thing bro. Many airlines have done it over the decades...In recent years? Ever heard of Continental?

I'll admit I also went to riddle like many other people on here. Its a place to make some decent friends and move on. I unfortunately got an aviation degree and injured my eye, had a hole in my retina and it took me close to 8 months to heal and get back on my feet flying again. I am fortunate to have healed up and looking back, yeah I should have gotten a degree in something to fall back on in case the unfortnate happens.

I went straight from 0 currency over those 8 months to flying a lear (not bragging about the plane, I'm still hanging on to the tail sometimes), at a questionable company whose training philosophy is "put them in the plane and let them figure it out on their own." I don't feel entitled to a job at an airline or a job where I look good in a uniform, the experience I've gained is invaluable and will make a better pilot. The things i've seen in the short amount of time flying this thing would make the riddle and pilot-factory instructors cry and be calling the chief pilot and faa.

Many of the pilots that come out of there have an entitlement and holier than thou attitude because of the name behind them, that doesnt make them a pilot, real-world experience out side of the watchful eye of big-brother makes them a better pilot. Thats where I feel going from a 172 and light twin to an rj gives them a lack in experience. They learn to be an autopilot and flight-director chaser.

I did hear a rumor from some of my friends at Spirit that girl from riddle was hired with close to 200 hours, and not hired through a bridge program, it was through some personal contacts in upper management but like I said its a rumor.

I understand the stereotype of these pilots but people do need to cut alot of riddle grads slack, we do go other places besides the regionals for our initial flying experiences, we do have ambitions and goals of self improvement, not just a right seat rj job and an attitude like the world should bow down to us.

Maybe some of the people getting on at Spirit out of ERAU are pretty nice, but good luck to them with the training, they'll be in for a ride, and I'm sure the performance expectations are very high there also.

Another whiskerbizkit quote:

Wow, very defensive, need some anger management!!!:o

This is scary.

Whatever. Good for them. I'm an NK pilot. They'll be fine. Won't have to unlearn any bad habits. They will be highly motivated and probably know more esoterica about the Bus than most (let's hope they don't make them check airmen). At least this way, they won't have to haul checks, fly turboprops, RJ's, DC-8's, and all manner of other assorted REALLY ****ty flying jobs like me and most of my co-workers at NK did. I just hope they take the time to learn good judgement and decision making skills before they move to the left seat.

Good luck all you riddle guys- everyone bashin' ya' is just jealous. We all would have taken that kind of opportunity if we could have.

Mayor? Is ERAU producing politicians now? :D

LOL :D... Is a new program

actually, TWA and UAL hired 300 hour pilots in the early '60s that were FOs quick.

If this lack of real world experience is such an impossible thing to overcome for these right seaters, I guess that we have a huge problem in the military where you have guys with a couple of hundred hours flying some pretty complicated equipment.

At TWA, I personally knew a handful of pilots that could not upgrade to Capt (back in the 60's) because they were not old enough for their ATP yet. And "No" they did not spend many, many years at the F/E panel.

At UPS, the ANC domicile, specifically the F/O position, is staffed mostly by new hires. I can remember reading this message board and the intra-union message board (Bar and Grill) at UPS and seeing posts how the ANC flights would be unsafe because only probies and newbies would be in the cockpits of the 747-400 and the MD11. Boiled down to simple terms, it was posted that the ANC Capts would be babysitting the new hires.

Similar to this thread there was a fair amount of rock-throwing and piling-on trumpeting how unsafe these new hires would be in the cockpits.

For those not familiar with UPS' hiring requirements, in the past year they required overwater, heavy jet time and a minimum of 1000 hrs of PIC time.

Stunning to many in the ANC, their pre-conceived notion that the newbie sitting next to them was inexpereinced proved to be unfounded. In many cases the newbie was a heavy jet Capt or F/O at a former airline and had the most overwater experience on the flight deck and the most time in the MD11. Still others had the military equivalent and again were more than competent.

I know I am comparing apples with mangos, but my point is I remember all the banter about how unsafe the UPS newbies would be prior to their arrival in ANC and how they needed "babysitting".
--------------------------------------

Good posting JPilot77, glad to hear you are back flying. I myself had a job whereas On-the-job training was the norm. At Focus Air Cargo I had two things working against me. 1. I had zero 747 experience and 2. Some of the places that Focus and all other ACMI carriers fly to are hard to pronounce much less easy to find on a map. I leaned pretty heavily on my F/O and F/E. I learned a lot from them and was humbled on many occasions. I hope the candidates for programs like these no matter what academy or background have the same level headed attitude as yourself.

Ok, back to bashing Riddle...I guess it's a slow news day.

FF-maybe I'm the mayor:D