NWA doesn't even make the list? Virgin America? Are you serious? You might as well have put Skybus as #1 then.

And SWA pilots might lose some ground with Herb taking less of an active role and the bean counters getting more involved with stagnent stock prices. Never go with flavor of the month or whos making the most money at this point in time. Guarenteed it will change.

Nashmd11 is UPS not SWA (I assume you were replying to his post?)

Jet,

I think he was ranking the airlines by their bases and surfing and skiing and gambling. I think. :rolleyes:

It goes to show that QOL issues are somewhat intangible. Some one's dream job may be a nightmare for others;)

The Numbers
 

Lets look at the numbers & some facts about them:

We are going to do some assuming here because there are many variables in play, first we are going to look at narrow body pay because all the airlines have them. We are only going to look at the next five years because as we all know everything changes very fast and there is no way to look past that in the airline industry or have any control over it. Next on pay we are going to do simple math and use the pay rates off of this website for years of service and we are just going to multiply by 1000hours every year assuming you will come close to that every year through normal line flying ,open time and cancel pay, and we are going to use upgrade times based on what they are today, yes we all know some will be more or less depending on the future of the airline.

South West: $52+88+98+108+119+122 = $587k
This could be a little low because you can get second year pay first year if you pick up open time, and that brings the 5 year total as high as $623K but it will cost you a type rating to get the job. Also up grades are 7 years right now and with them only hiring about 250 pilots next year and the growth slowing a bit I heard it may go as high as 12 years. Good relationship with management.

Continental: $31+63+75+137+138+139 = $583k
$31 dollars an hour for first year and no medical benefits for the first six months could be a big pay cut that many people just can’t afford to make. They do not have any west coast bases. Up grade is only 3 years right now, I don’t know if it will stay there. And don’t forget to give your 2% to alpa (that’s $11k over the 5 years).

JetBlue: $47+58+67+118+121+127 = $538k
These numbers may also be on the low side since I did not factor in 1.5 for everything over 70 hours, which actually brings the total to $581K over 5 years. And 5% profit sharing guaranteed adds another $27K to your bottom line to bring you as high as $608K. Plus they pay for everything including your Uniforms & that includes the leather jacket (No hats, a big plus in my book!!!). They opened 16 new markets last year and had a few unprofitable quarters because of the cost with opening the new markets, however they seem to be making money now, and they have posted profits the last half of 2007 even though they had an operational shut down in Feb (but those people got to sit on an airplane and watch TV, what would they have done in the terminal). Upgrades on the airbus may go up to 5 years in the future. Lots of room to expand on the west coast with the E190 & upgrade is only 1.5 years, also there is not a Union and have a great working relationship with management. Pilots sign an individual work agreement that has a golden parachute in it that say in case of a merger, takeover, bankrupts that causes you to be furloughed you will be paid a severance package of 1 years salary. A common complaint is medical benefits are not very good, it’s a PPO 90/10.

Frontier: $37+64+73+77+133+136 = $520k
They have had a hard time making any money in the past few quarters, southwest is on there turf. Upgrade is only 3 years right now, lots of doubt it will stay there. Denver is the only base.

Airtran: $43+56+61+112+120+124 = $516k
Good work rules so my friends say, but you have to pay for your hotel in training and they do not have any west coast bases.

Delta: $49+75+88+90+92+94 = $488k
Heard a new hire talk about paying $700 for his Uniform. Also could be as long as 7 years to get based on the west coast. 2% to alpa.

Alaska: $35+62+73+80+86+88 = $424k
I have heard management relations are not that great right now, and first year pay is pretty low. No bases on the East Coast. 2% to alpa.

Northwest: $30+63+77+79+80+82 = $411k
Low fist year pay, could be a merger target with another Legacy. 2% to alpa

UsAir: $39+61+68+75+83+85 = $411k
I used AWA pay rates since they were higher and I would guess that is the bar that they will shoot for with negotiations. Who knows what going to happen with the seniority list, it could be a long trip if you have to fly with a USair East guy that thinks he got the shaft and you have to listen to him ***** about it for 4 days. I heard lots of talk when I was at Mesa that E190 was going to come to PHX to start flying on the west coast. Give 2% to alpa (maybe)

United: $32+50+73+78+80+82 = $395k
Lowest of all pay, and its relationship with management is right up there with Mesa’s. plus 2% to alpa.

I am by no means trying to bag on alpa it is just one of those factors that people should consider when ranking airlines because those union dues really start to add up, over the course of a career you could pay over $200K in dues.

Just one of many corrections, Delta new hires have recently made it out west in as little as a few weeks for LA to the first day of class if your talking about SLC. Also it's a little telling that your two biggest paragraphs were about JetBlue, and USAir in which you mentioned you flew for Mesa. Makes me wonder why if JetBlue is so fantastic that there where three JB guys in one of our newhire classes I stuck my head into a while back. Things that make you go hmmmmmm. In fairness I bet JetBlue seems like nirvana coming from Mesa.

JetBlue: $47+58+67+118+121+127 = $538k
These numbers may also be on the low side since I did not factor in 1.5 for everything over 70 hours, which actually brings the total to $581K over 5 years. And 5% profit sharing guaranteed adds another $27K to your bottom line to bring you as high as $608K. Plus they pay for everything including your Uniforms & that includes the leather jacket (No hats, a big plus in my book!!!). They opened 16 new markets last year and had a few unprofitable quarters because of the cost with opening the new markets, however they seem to be making money now, and they have posted profits the last half of 2007 even though they had an operational shut down in Feb (but those people got to sit on an airplane and watch TV, what would they have done in the terminal). Upgrades on the airbus may go up to 5 years in the future. Lots of room to expand on the west coast with the E190 & upgrade is only 1.5 years, also there is not a Union and have a great working relationship with management. Pilots sign an individual work agreement that has a golden parachute in it that say in case of a merger, takeover, bankrupts that causes you to be furloughed you will be paid a severance package of 1 years salary. A common complaint is medical benefits are not very good, it’s a PPO 90/10.


Delta: $49+75+88+90+92+94 = $488k
Heard a new hire talk about paying $700 for his Uniform. Also could be as long as 7 years to get based on the west coast. 2% to alpa.[/quote]


I can't help myself. I'm going to be a real toolbox here, but I'd rather pay a few hundred bucks for a real airline uniform than be caught in that flight attendant getup they give you for free. All right, I'm done.... for now.

I'm a little slow...that's why I fly freight, but didn't you say five years? How come you show six pay rates and 6000 hours for everybody? How does a company guarantee 5% profit sharing regardless of whether or not they make a profit? Why don't they just bump your pay rates up 5%? Maybe you can get that in your next CBA....oh, never mind.

Ygtbsm
 

Buff,

I'm really not one to flame but you must have just stayed right by the blue juice fountain the whole time you were at indoc. Look, I'm always treated great by you guys ridin' to work and appreciate it. But with regards to your post....

First off, I don't think that anyone is planning on a 5 year career. So for your comparison to have any validity, you are going to have to run it out to a normal 20 - 30 year career. That means you're going to have to put in widebody pay (plus international override pay) and that means your numbers will change dramatically.

I know that you were comparing mid-bodies, but the fact of the matter is that here at DAL almost all new hires are going into the 767ER and if they aren't they could hold it on their first bid. (don't forget to add in the international override)

You put in some references under Blue for things like 1.5 pay and profit sharing. I know you don't know everyone's contract, but since you threw in some of your perks.... I averaged 110 hours pay a month this past spring and summer never flying more than 80. My best was 146 hours of pay and 76 hours of work. I did this without losing a single day off. How? Because it's in the contract. That one month's extra pay covered my ALPA dues 3 times over for the entire year. I've got my problems with ALPA but I'll take my union contract over your work rules any day.

You've got profit sharing? So do we. So does CAL, NWA, SWA and UAL. How are Blue's profits comparatively this past year? All the legacies have an A, B or C fund, or some combination there of. Some have admittedly been gutted but they are there where Blue has none. It's great that you get a uniform and a laptop but is a couple grand of stuff worth the earnings of these funds over a career? Hell, even a year.

I can't believe you're defending the Valentine's day masacre with the damn TV's.

You don't even want to think about what will happen to you if you merge with or get bought by a union carrier, severence package or not.

Finally, I agree you can't precicely predict the future. But this you can take to the bank. All the contract negotiations coming up are going to reshape the pay scales significantly. By the way, our contract pay rates go up across the board every year. I don't mean you just go from 4 year to 5 year pay, I mean the whole pay scale increases every year. So you need to re-figure yet again.

I could go on, but I'm really not trying to insult.

A post that was so off the mark was begging for a refutal.

Take it easy