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Delta Furlough Protections

Old 06-28-2013, 12:01 PM
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Default Delta Furlough Protections

Can anyone give me a history of the no furlough language in the Delta contract? As I understood it, Delta had language similar to United's that prohibited pilot furloughs. United didn't contest the post September 11 furloughs and in fact allowed the company to remove the language from subsequent contracts. I believe that Delta ignored the language and furloughed pilots after September 11. Delta ALPA grieved the furloughs and the pilots were brought back with retro pay. Is this correct? Did any subsequent furloughs occur and is the language still in the contract? Thanks.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:18 PM
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Delta's new furlough protection is a Compass E175 Captain seat.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:08 PM
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I guess we have officially reached the point of having this discussion. Ideally, how many of us would DAL get rid of and how long would they want us gone? The message has been loud and clear. We are way overstaffed. Is it time to start looking at the E175A pay scales?
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
Delta's new furlough protection is a Compass E175 Captain seat.
Actually both seats at Compass as well as the removal of 6 seats from all 76 seaters, not subject to force majeure either. Additionally there is furlough pay and continued longevity while out on furlough and very generous recall/bypass rights, paid moves and numerous other stacked incentives and I think something to do with ALVs and the amounts of flying, etc. There's probably some additional things as well, not to mention the approximate 2 year break even period on a furlough "investment" as well as the critical mass necessary to justify doing it in the first place (I'd guess somewhere near 1000 or more pilots for 2+ years) and we're not even remotely near a scenario like that at the moment. Meanwhile we're closer to hiring and we haven't hit the fat part of the retirement curve which starts now and gets into full swing in about 2 or so years from now. IOW to furlough now would require a global cataclysm unless the company just wanted to make a statement by throwing a few dozen guys to the streets just to say they can, only to quickly recall them.
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Old 06-28-2013, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Coto Pilot View Post
Can anyone give me a history of the no furlough language in the Delta contract? As I understood it, Delta had language similar to United's that prohibited pilot furloughs. United didn't contest the post September 11 furloughs and in fact allowed the company to remove the language from subsequent contracts. I believe that Delta ignored the language and furloughed pilots after September 11. Delta ALPA grieved the furloughs and the pilots were brought back with retro pay. Is this correct? Did any subsequent furloughs occur and is the language still in the contract? Thanks.




You are sort of combing two separate furlough events. I will recount what happened as best I can.

Post 9-11 DAL started to furlough despite a no furlough clause. We started with 400 guys in around November of 2001. Each month thereafter was another round of furloughs for 30-60 Pilots. The Union opposed the furlough citing the no furlough clause but the company had a "force-majeure" clause and the company was allowed to furlough.

DAL continued to furlough every month except 01 Jan 2003. I guess they thought guys would blow off holiday flying and so we had a one month reprieve and then the final group of the first round was furloughed on 01 February 2003. In total about 1050-1100 guys were furloughed.

Then in March the Gulf War kicked off and DAL furloughed approximately 250 more guys. Again the union protested and this time the arbitrator agreed with DAPLA that force-majeure did not cover this event. These guys were recalled with back pay. A very good deal in hindsight, but no one like the uncertainty of a furlough.

So the second group of guys were only out about 3-6 months and received back pay. The next summer (2004) DAL needed to start recalling Pilots and had the first recall class start in July. They then recalled about 30-40 guys a month until all were offered a recall. The shortest anyone was out was February 2003-July 2004. These guys also received two months of furlough pay. The guys who were furloughed first were out maybe 4-5 years and I think some may have only received 1 month of furlough pay.

So in summary - two separate groups of furloughs. The first 1050-1100 were not really helped by the no-furlough clause, although I think the arbitrator may have made the company stop furloughing after February 2003. This may be why he sided with DALPA on the second round because he felt the company was using the Gulf War as an excuse to flout his ruling. Either way DALPA won the second round.

The second group of about 250 were totally helped by the no-furlough clause and were quickly brought back to the line with back pay.

The sad part of all these furloughs is that Delta Connection was hiring Pilots like crazy during this period, but that is another story.

The good, the bad and the ugly of the Delta furloughs:

Good - DALPA provided medical coverage for furloughees.
Bad - Delta Pilots green-slipping (overtime flying) with guys on furlough
Ugly - The COMAIR MEC trying to hold DAL furloughs as hostages - never doubt Karma.


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Last edited by Scoop; 06-28-2013 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Scoop View Post
The next summer (2004) DAL needed to start recalling Pilots and had the first recall class start in July. They then recalled about 30-40 guys a month until all were offered a recall.
There was a break in the recall between Oct 05 when Delta filed BK, and the signing of Letter 51, in April/May of 06 when recalls started again. I was in the first group of 5 to be recalled after Letter 51 after being out 4 1/2 years. To make matters worse, I was laid off from Gemini Air Cargo when they filed for BK one month after Delta did.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:59 PM
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Why are we having this discussion. Is there some new rumor?
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by daldude View Post
Why are we having this discussion. Is there some new rumor?
Someone from another airline posted it asking a question.

It's not Deltapilotcentral, it's airlinepilotcentral.
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Old 06-30-2013, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
Actually both seats at Compass as well as the removal of 6 seats from all 76 seaters, not subject to force majeure either. Additionally there is furlough pay and continued longevity while out on furlough and very generous recall/bypass rights, paid moves and numerous other stacked incentives and I think something to do with ALVs and the amounts of flying, etc. There's probably some additional things as well, not to mention the approximate 2 year break even period on a furlough "investment" as well as the critical mass necessary to justify doing it in the first place (I'd guess somewhere near 1000 or more pilots for 2+ years) and we're not even remotely near a scenario like that at the moment. Meanwhile we're closer to hiring and we haven't hit the fat part of the retirement curve which starts now and gets into full swing in about 2 or so years from now. IOW to furlough now would require a global cataclysm unless the company just wanted to make a statement by throwing a few dozen guys to the streets just to say they can, only to quickly recall them.
Or just age 68.
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Old 06-30-2013, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp View Post
Someone from another airline posted it asking a question.

It's not Deltapilotcentral, it's airlinepilotcentral.
What?!!!? When did that happen????
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