Zeroto4

Long time listener, first time caller. I may soon be in the position of having to choose between JetBlue and AirTran for my (hopefully) final career move. I've read all the JB stuff on the forum but I see very little from AirTran guys. How do guys like working at AirTran? How long on reserve if you get the B-737? How long to upgrade at AirTran? Will AirTran take all their deliveries/options? What's the best/worst thing about working at AirTran. Anyone have any insight on which would be better career choice? Do you know of anyone who is leaving JB for AT or vice versa? Thanks.

ryane946

Where do you live?
Do you live in New York, Los Angeles, Miami, Atlanta, or close to one of those cities? One of the biggest downsides of being a pilot is having to commute. Do you want your commute to take 30 minutes by car, or 3 hours by airplane?

Both JetBlue and AirTran have lots of aircraft on order, and upgrade times are low. Both look somewhat stable, with neither company really being much better than the other (In my opinion). AirTran pays more, especially now that JetBlue flies the EMB-190. So my primary advice would be to look at domiciles. You can't really go wrong with either of these airlines (Remember AirTran pays more).

Finally, have you considered Continental. I think they are a more stable company (With lots of international flying). They pay much more than AirTran and JetBlue. Upgrade is a little slower, but I would trade some money at the beginning of your career for a lot more at the end! Your free flying benefits are better because Continental flies everywhere. They have U.S. bases in Newark, Cleveland, and Houston. I read they are negotiating for bases in So Cal, the Northeast, and Florida.

AmericanIdiot#1

QOL and commuting if you are married with kids plays a huge factor for me. I "only" have a two leg commute that can be done in five hours or less if I don't get bumped. Working on the wife to move to SDF.

BigEasy

I guess I'll put my two cents in.

Feb. will make one year for me at AirTran, came from ATA. For the most part things are going well. Reserve only lasted two months with me getting plenty of flying.

First year pay is not bad considering what others have to offer, you can figure an average of 85 CREDIT hours of pay, that is not the same as actual hard hours flown.

Upgrade time now is at 2-2.5 years. Things can change but the plan is 162 airframes by 2008.

Health insurance begins the following month after your date of hire. The plans are OK but expensive, not happy about that.

Do a research on the pay at all airlines at airlinepilotcentral.com . Someone mentioned Continental being paid more, not exactly. The pay depends on type of aircraft, CAL have heavy's which tend to pay more. By the way, I agree that you should also try CAL along with the others.

Retirement at Airtran is not bad. After your first year you will participate in a company sponsored "B" Plan. This will put 10.5% of your earnings into a fund that you control. Key word is YOUR money that YOU control. Granted, you must be vested to keep it, about five years I think.

Management is keeping the ship upright considering the state of the industry.

I don't much about Jetblue but they do get alot of press time where Airtran does not.

By the way, I live in the New Orleans area and when Katrina was heading this way, my chief pilot released me from my trip to go home and evacuate my family. He personally flew the rest of my trip. I had about a month off work and Airtran did not question my time off and actually paid me for a full month. On top of that, the employees donated money into a fund and this in turn was distributed to all employees that lived in the affected area. If only FEMA could work that fast and efficient.

You will probably read alot of hateful and vulgar things about Airtran on this board or others, but in my short time here I honestly can say that all of the trash talking is off the mark it is not even funny. Some people have a bone to pick. You decide what to believe.

I hope that helps you or anyone else that is interested.

BigEasy

embatp

hey bert good to see things are working out... let me know whats up

terry

ERJ135

Where in the Northeast are these new bases supposed to be??

ryane946

Not sure. That is what I read from Airline Pilot Central on Continental's page. It's second hand information, but I trust Airline Pilot Central.

ERJ135

Yeah I saw that too, didn't know if you had inside info....

Zeroto4

Thanks BigEasy and Ryane

Lot's to consider. I have been focused on the legacy carriers so long I dropped the other majors out of my crosscheck. Here's how I kind of compare the two at the present time:

Business Model: Both seem to have good business models (Q4 and full yr 05 results to come)

Corporate Culture: JB seems to really care about it's crewmembers and customers. Don't know much about AirTran but BigEasy's Katrina story is encouraging.

Debt: The nemesis of all airlines. Both carriers currently have about 100 aircraft, but JB has over $2 billion in debt while AirTran has less than $500 mil

Pay: AirTran does pay captains better the longer they are on the property. JB pays them better in years 1-7. If you only have 10 years to go to retirement, it's close to a wash depending on how many hours you base your projections on.

Retirement: AirTran has a 10.5% B plan vs JB's 3% 401K match plus profit sharing and stock options.

Competition: JB doesn't seem to have much competition out of JFK. Don't know how effective a post BK Delta will be out of ATL against AirTran.

Union: Don't know how to read this one. AirTran has one but management wants 12% pay cut or 12% productivity increases. Don't know what their union is leaning towards, if they are willing to give up anything at all. JB seems to only have upward pressure on wages expected from what I read.

Progession: With 75% of their orders/deliveries yet to come, you will advance faster and further at JB. AirTran has about 60% yet to come. Wild cards are any age 60 retirements over the next few years (don't know how either carrier sits in this department) and a slowdown or cancellation of deliveries due to economic reasons.

Commute: I'm closer to Atlanta than any JB domicile.

Aircraft: The Airbus (I'll skip the EMB-190) vs. the 737NG (I would hope to skip the 717). I've got 3000 hours of Boeing time vs. zero in the Airbus.

Technology: JB seems to embrace technology (laptops, onboard cameras monitoring the passenger compartment, weather channel available in the cockpit, ACARS, etc.)
AirTran...none of the above.

Paint Scheme: AirTran wins.

If anybody else has any thoughts, they would be much appreciated. I'm not quite sure what BigEasy meant by "I'd read alot of hateful and vulgar things about Airtran on this board or others, but in my short time here I honestly can say that all of the trash talking is off the mark it is not even funny". Am I missing something? http://forums.airlinepilotcentral.co...s/confused.gif

banger

I won't dispute the above comment. However I'm just curious if you have factored in the 1.5Xbase pay above 70 hours that JB pays. I'd say 85 hours is a pretty common monthly block. That adds about $10/hr to JB/CA salary. Now I have heard some complain that they don't consider adding in "overtime" as part of the salary but IMHO it would be silly not to factor this in to a decision. Also JB has a 75 hour reserve gaurantee and of that, 70 are at straight pay and 5 hours are at 1.5X.
Last month (Dec) I flew 86 hours, got paid for 107 with gaurantees and some DH time. Then, unfortunitely due to my junior seniority I had to fly on Xmas and got an extra 6.5 hours of holiday pay. Sucked to work so hard in Dec but I was financially rewarded for it and had the first 14 days of Jan off.
All in all I agree with most of the above posters that you want to work where you live. If you can move then crunch the numbers, if you can't then I would pick the carrier closest to home.