UAL Interview
 

I have been invited for a UAL interview. I am a RJ CA making over $100,000. This is a very difficult decision and im looking for any info you guys may have like time to widebody FO?, most junior 757 FO?, most junior FO in JFK?
I would like to based in JFK, if hired, and im curious as to what i can expect as far as equipment/pay goes. The pay is very difficult, and im not sure i can do it financially. Any info regarding the above questions, and any insights or opinions as to what you might do would be useful.......Thanks in advance.

Retired, so I don't have much info for you. However, JFK only has the A320 & B757/767. SEA is the only domicile smaller than JFK. I wouldn't be surprised to see JFK close some day. I think the current head count is around 270 or so.

A small base is usually "senior".

A CAL/UAL merger would change the landscape. If that happens I wouldn't be surprised to see the operation shut down at JFK. LGA may be another story, however.

All of the above is just a guess on my part.

According to some friends still there, morale is terrible.

That's an accurate report except for the days that it's worse than terrible.

Thanks for the insight.

Making over 100K on top of a seniority list, going to an airline that makes you pay for a hotel during training then gives you 27K for the 1st year, 39K the 2nd (how much is left if you need a crashpad) and could furlough with a merger, as an FO you could go to the 12 year max and not make 100K....I'd think this one over. Is wearing a brand name worth the price? Their pay scale looks like a regional scale! I would say combining the words Legacy and United is a thing of the past! Nothing against United Pilots..the management there has accomplished this.

Assume you thought over some of this before you applied. If not, go to interview. Give it your best shot. If offered a job, then you have a dilemma <g>. Now you don't. Yes, you will see the 100K again, if it is only about money. No, you should not go depending on your age (late 40's and older perhaps) If younger, time value back on your side. Opportunity to grow back into higher dollars.
If anything, you may find OTHER opportunities from UAL if you choose to leave that you may very well never attain at your present company.
Example: UAL to Fedex/UPS/SWA/World/etc is more conceivable in a broader market than Regional to same. Why? Thousands will compete from the regional market. Not as many from the legacy market, especially when folks not in a furlough. You will stand out to an HR dept, that gives you the big edge. You would be highly likely to get an interview. Much better averages.

So who do you work for? Southern? Evergreen? You seem to know a lot for a trash hauler 747 co-pilot.

Most of the vitrol towards UAL is emotional based. You have to look long term and even that is playing craps- unless you have a crystal ball. All the legacys are suffering now and each have pros and cons and each have had promising futures reversed temporarily. Most of the factual info is available but if UAL was going to be auctioned, it would have happened in bankruptcy. Even with all the "growth" DAL, CAL, and Southwest are having, UAL still has more widebodies and is the #2 largest carrier behind AA. The pilot group at UAL will get significant contract improvements and then once again the industry can follow United higher.

The merger scenarios will change the status quo for all players and NOBODY knows how the chips will lay 10 years from now.

Carpe Diem

I have plenty of reasons (and relatives) for "knowing a lot" about UA, is there a point or number I came up with thats not correct. Please enlighten me if so. The "Trash" being hauled is a pretty expensive composite airliner (that I don't see UA on the order list for).


I would love to see United, Northwest, Delta and all the other legacies out there get on track, don't get me wrong...the issue here is to read the quote above and ponder ...what the hell has happened to this industry?..... it has become a tough decision to go to a Legacy carrier!!! All those numbers I crunched in my first post to this thread are because I have gone through the same decision process. In my state on first year pay with a family I would be better off not paying for company insurance, but getting insurance through public assistance for free!!

yeah..........ok.......whatever.....it was united who lead the industry lower.

the pilots there have already proven to their ceo's that they are willing to work for crappy wages and rules for years and years and accept ja's...why would a ceo give them more money just for the hell of it.


way too many heros there

Two minor tit for tats and then you can enlighten me on which carrier has not at some time or another hurt our profession over the last 30 years. Also, while you are at it, which carriers historically improve the general labor contracts. Well, that pretty much eliminates any true success stories.

Two weeks ago Tilton did give contract enhancements-rig and guarantee improvements without any givebacks. Second point, wasn't it United pre 9/11 that negotiated the highest pay rates ever.

I do agree in a general sense how pathetic the labor contracts are. However, I am more dismayed that for the most part, all these crappy contracts were ratified by the memberships. What did labor do when American passed around the B scale, what did labor do when the first pensions were stolen (US AIR), what did labor do when the last round of furloughs came (fly a higher line value to make up for the 40% paycuts), which pilot groups have undermined the whole team by paying for training/type or working for sub-standard pay. Plenty of blame to go around.

For the record, Delta's contract had rates that surpassed United's, setting the bar slightly higher.

I believe in every case it was recommended by the respective MEC. That's something to always think about when electing Council representatives.

Well, United pilots went on strike in 1985 against the B-scale. That was the only item on the negotiating table still open. I would call that a strong labor response.

The rest of your paragraph I'll agree with. In spite of what ALPA's leadership might say, labor's response was weak. But one must also take into account the existing playing field, especially the courts and congress. :mad:

Let's also consider that a union and it's membership rarely want to drive the company totally out of business, but only to "live to fight another day".

However, this statement in the Atlanta Constitution (and others I'm sure) would bother me if I was a Delta or Northwest pilot:

"Union representatives are working overtime to hammer
out a "conceptual" agreement on some of the thornier
issues, such as seniority and pay."

To go forth with only a "conceptual" agreement is, in my opinion, a SEVERE mistake. The pendulum has swung back to your side, use it as management has for the past 7 years. Has ALPA's leadership not learned from their most recent experiences? :confused: :confused:

Nothing is for free...This most certainly has to do with him trying to get labor on board with a merger....standy by for a screw job in the future. Tilton does not have a heart, therefore he can not just give things out of the goodness of it.

Just my opinion, of course, but I bet if you look at the cost of sick calls and cancelations that were taking place at ual and balance those against giving back some work rules that were negotiated almost a decade ago to get the cancelations down its probably cost neutral.

I'd love to see the pay scales turn around at the legacies. Correct me if I'm wrong, but several years ago I recall talking to a pilot that was furloughed from UAL in 1980. He said his first year pay was horribly low at $28k per year. Min gaurantee now is about $25k per year. Have they really gone that far backwards in 30 years? What has happened to this profession? :confused:

I'm in the same boat making $100k per year. With mortgage payments that total $17k per year, there is no way I can afford to make the change to a legacy.

Sad to see. Amendable in 09...
What do you really want to do?
That is the only question that matters...

Security is a dubious word in this business...base your decision on vision, not fear...

good luck!

Regionals are currently at their pinnacle in pay and work rules (which isnt saying much). Legacies are currently at the lowest low they have been at in fifty years. Regional jets "flavor of the month" popularity is coming to an end (reductions are currently underway). There are alot of "if's" out there but along with the facts already mentioned:

1. What will happen if/when the legacies get a next generation 100 seater. This could be the new Bombardier or something else from EMB or Boeing/Airbus. What affect would this have on legacies? What affect would it have on regionals size and growth?

2. If consolidation does what is intended, increase pricing power, and the legacies start making a couple billion a year, which pilot group will see 30, 40 and 50% pay raises? I would be surprized to see pay raised greater than 5% (1-3% if you are at skywest) when RJ's are being taken out of the market.

3. At the regionals you will always have young, low time guys voting on proposals and really never have much solidarity since these guys are the first to start suckling off the company Koolaid nipple. You might find your frustration level at the regionals higher over the course of a 30 plus year career.

4. In defense of the regional "if" what if the legacies give up more scope and the regionals get 100 seaters? This scenario is about the only hopefull reason I see for staying at a regional over the long term. I mention "over the long term" because that is the picture you need to look at. By going to a legacy you give up some pay for a few years (only one at Delta) but long term I would say your prospects for advancement and increased earnings would be better at a major. Btw, if regionals ever do get 100 seaters (I dont think they will) I doubt the pay scales will be raised by much because of SJS and the younger niave pilot group that can never come together.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Well I am making over 110k per year in the corporate world and I am going to jump ship to UA, DAL, NWA or CAL as soon as I get the offer. I figure it can't get any worse at the majors and there it is a pretty good market for pilots right now so why not. There is more to life then money.

And they lead the industry higher, too. Even higher than Brown pays now! How is that 1st year pay? Move on, dude.

Thanks to everyone. I agree that is truly sad that this is such a difficult decision.
I will likely go to the interview, and see if the decision needs to be made. It will be extremely difficult. I agree there is way more to life than money, but bills need to be paid. It would also likely take several years to attain a quality of life (schedule wise) that a senior RJ pilot experiences today. The future of the regional industry is certainly unclear as well.
Does anyone here have any info on how long it might take to hold a widebody FO position at UAL? It seems like there is the only livable wage for me.

Where is your airplane located?

At UAL, all new hires are initially put on the A320 or B737. There is a 3-yr lock. Currently, there is a shortage of B767 FO's, so management is letting pilots with seat locks break their lock and bid B767 FO. How long this will last is not known. If you come to UAL, plan on at least 3 years in the 320/737 seat, and hope you get lucky and get released from the lock.

Now, how this works with new hires I haven't figured out yet. I thought I heard that we had to put in some time before they would give us the opportunity to go to the 767.

The latest is that the 767 FO seat is available to anyone on the seniority list that has completed training between now and the end of the year.

Very nice!!!
New York based?

Let me clarify that a little bit...

You must be able to hold it and right now it is not junior enough for any new hires. Guess what I was trying to say was that the 36 month seat-lock does not prevent you from going to the 767 IF your seniority can hold it. That will be the case until the end of 2008.

After you have finished training in the 737 or Airbus you can bid the 767...

Sorry if I was a bit unclear on that.

Truly sad indeed..... I first applied at United in 1994 and never thought this would be such a tough decision. I would say the fear of furlough after a rough merger is the top thing holding me back from applying now. Things are not so great here, but the checks clear and I drive twenty minutes to work twice a week. I've got my wife and two little ones at home who have a lot at stake in any decision I make. It's all in the timing, and after ten years in the airline business, I know there's no guarantees.

That is the truth my friend..........