A similar project was proposed in California not too long ago, but for the most part all storage is in coal and nuclear fuel. Hydro plants can be a boon to those areas with a suitable terrain and water supply.

Hi!

Why is oil going to go up in price, and keep going up in price, even as we here in the US use less???

China (followed by India-10 years back):

This author says that oil is now right-priced, and it's going higher, because of China (India is about 10 years behind them, so just starting their own oil consumption push).

Some oil pundits have claimed that China's demand will ease as oil prices rise. This author says they are delusional!

http://www.resourceinvestor.com/pebble.asp?relid=40701


Quote:

PARIS (ResourceInvestor.com) -- The market has spoken. For once the machinations of the market are being based not on herd mentality, software, technicals or the whims of the mass media. Instead the worrying thing is the moves to $100 oil are based on reality, demand. Chinese demand.
It has not mattered a jot to China as oil has risen in price.
...
If Chinese demand were going to slacken off it would have happened by now. But nothing of the sort is going on. Although, as we have said before here, the figures that come out of Beijing can be slightly odd, it appears Chinese demand is rising somewhere around 10 per cent per year at the moment.

cliff
LRD

Oil is priced over $100 because of this "$20-$30 WAR premium", "$10-$20 hurricane premium" and a few other things like SPECULATORS driving the price higher. They don't realize the damage they are inflicting on the economy as a whole. I know, I know, .....they're entitled to everything they earn and good for them, but in the end, it's you and I who will pay through the nose for it. I see it's up almost $3 a bbl today. Great...........another $132 MILLION off of CAL's bottom line. I guess now is a GREAT TIME to negotiate another contract. :mad:

What is your proposed solution?

I see you have managed to narrow it down to speculators. The above is your opening post in this thread. What happened to Saudis, special interest, oil people, oil companies,government, and the Middle East?


Could it be that we have made some progress in 17 pages?

What you refer to as speculators are actually the people who are able to fund a free market by maintaining liquidity. Without people willing to risk capital on the future value(or loss of value) of a given commodity, there would be no market and zero realistic price. A liquid market is needed to keep prices in check and to support any notion of fair value.

Yeah, that makes REAL SENSE. I guess your idea of the price being kept in "check" is for it to go up over 100% in a year. :rolleyes:

And your solution would be what? Ever visit any country without free market speculation?
What do you think the price would be if there was no free market?

Go to Europe, buy a gallon of gasoline and report back, you may get a surprise.

Or take a look around the world if you are really interested in the why and how: http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/2653

could,nt agree more!

anyone have a guess as to what price oil can rise to, before airlines are forced to consolodate or do whatever else is necessary to avoid shutting down?

bottom line......nothing is going to happen during this administration. anything good at least.

Pray tell sir, which demi god do you suppose will control the price of oil?

Bottom line is that politicos can't control world markets.

Well why not? Hillary promised to lower gasoline prices if elected!!!

As a rule they have a knack for making it more expensive in their home market: http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/2653

Promises without an explanation of how are frequently made.:D

Interesting essay refuting the onset of Peak Oil Theory.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1204...n_commentaries

Energy efficiency via new technology, not conservation is key.

As rates increase over the next few years the USD will rebound, barring a major geopolitical crisis~price of oil and gold will eventually retard and then retract, oil won't look like such a great speculative investment and Russia and Venzeuela won't be so cocky.

High price of oil is a direct side effect to a once robust but now confused world economy, this has far less to do with geology than one may think and that is good news for pilots.

This is the free market economy operating on a real time global scale and it will take some time to shake itself out just like in the housing inflation or recent and oil boom/bust periods in times past. This bubble is alot of hot air, lacking firmness and reality and it will eventually burst and take a lot of investors with it.

Peak oil, carbon footprint, deforesting, global warming, alternative energy is every bit an industry as much as it is a political movement. Buyer Beware.

EAHINC

Oil discoveries worldwide and the extraction of that oil has always followed Hubbert's peak...that's what makes Hubbert's peak so fascinating. The modern market place is built on oil...of course the market is going to deny the premise of Peak Oil. It's a hard pill to swallow for the market. The invisible hand likes to think that it can control everything, yet even the invisible hand is powered by a combustion engine...

Initially, the market will try to adapt to the changes brought about by Peak Oil. We're all seeing this right now as airline pilots. Look how much our wages and quality of life have sufferred since oil production has managed to not keep pace w/ demand. Most airline pilots are working more for less, in order to help compensate for rising fuel costs.

I've been hearing for years now from pilots who are "experts in the field" that oil prices are going to fall precipitously. That's a pipe dream. Everyone wants to believe that, but it's not going to happen. Then I hear folks gleefully announce that, adjusted for inflation, oil today is no more expensive than it was during the embargo. Well that's true, but it's also true that, adjusted for inflation, pilots 20 years ago made twice as much as they do today...so something here is not right.

Not many of the financial publications out there will admit it, but they've been claiming for years that what we're seeing right now w/ oil would never happen. They laughed at people who claimed oil would soon be over $100/bbl...how could they have gotten it so wrong?

The bottom line is that the forecast re: oil's price spike made by peak oil theorists years ago has actually happened. Maybe they just got lucky, I don't know, but the accuracy of their predictions makes me want to at least lend some credence to their ideas/viewpoint.

Up over $5 a bbl today. This kind of crap has to stop. Article in USA Today stated some "speculators" are being investigated for screwing around with airline fuel contracts and that "speculation" has propped up the price AT LEAST 10% above where it should be. It's about time these speculators were being looked at, but still way too late in my opinion. Glad to see our good friends in the middle east and the oil companies are at least making a small but meager profit.............:rolleyes: (Apparently even though US consumption has dropped in the past few months, we DEMANDED 5% more oil today according to the "supply and demand" experts on this forum who say the price is tied to demand). :eek:

Even a broken watch is right twice a day....................;)

Ron Paul for President...I think he would really live up to his promises if he could overcome the senate and house.

I think this thread is burned out, outta gas, empty...

One reason oil spiked today was that petrol inventories here in the US dropped unexpectedly so yes, one could say it was a "supply and demand" event. JP

Oil companies make 10% profit? Where did you get this figure? Let me guess from the Oil company? Or maybe you work for the oil company. Sounds like a propaganda from Exxon Mobile. Even at 10% a 10% of 10 billion is 1 billion. It's the greed of the oil industry that is squeezing the life out of middle class Americans. This is an instance where government regulation of price would do some good, that is not going to happen when you have the administration in bed with the oil industry and the congress is bought and sold for.

Yeah, say that to yourself again and again, and maybe you will start to believe that nonsense. Whatever makes you sleep better at night.

Why would Congress pass a law restricting Exxon's profits when the Federal government recieves 41% of Exxon's profits every quarter in the form of taxes? It Congress did that, they wouldn't be able to bribe as many voters every election with all those federally funded social programs. JP

Simple matter of fact. JP

Yeah. You might be right at that. Oil industry has a very powerful lobby group in Washington to grease the wheel.

Somehow I'm having a really difficult time believing ANYTHING coming out of our governments mouth concerning our oil supply. One week we have way too much, and the next we're hurting. It's turned into one big joke and it's being played on the American people. All I know is that a lot of oil people are getting extremely rich off us right now. BTW, the jet fuel "crack" spread is now over $25 a bbl which has jet fuel oil at $125 a bbl. Can't stay in business if this keeps up much more. :(

There are a lot of posts on this thread talking about the profit margin the oil companies are making. I work for the airlines thank you very much...:eek: I AGREE that gov't regulation seems to be needed, but since our government is in bed with the oil companies, I don't think you'll ever see that. I'm just wondering what our country is going to have to do to get the oil company's attention. I just hope and pray that the bottom falls out, then they can enjoy a screwing like everyone else...............:eek:

Just understand that oil production is peaking. All of the data out there suggests that this is the case. Refutations of Peak Oil are comparably weak because of a lack of data and exhuberant assumptions. The marketplace believes that mankind will overcome Peak Oil w/ some grand new invention/technological prowess. I think they're placing a bit too much faith in mankind with that sort of prediction.

It is what it is.

Any word on how Virgin's coconut fuel worked out? Not sure there's enough coconut's to fuel all the planes in the world, but sure would look nice from FL350 with all the Palm Trees everywhere!?... :D

To get the oil companies' attention, we are going to need a President who's got the balls to regulate and tax them at the rate they have been screwing us. Start with oil company executives. I do not see that on the horizon though. Whether it's Hillary or McCain, they are both corrupt.

I agree with you that we all hope the bottom falls out of this incessant oil price raping of middle class Americans and oil companies get screwed like they have been screwing us over the last 30 years.

I agree with you there. Anything coming out of this administration lacks integrity based on their past performance. You are right about many oil business people getting rich off our backs.

That guy that wrote on this thread with a blatantly false statement that oil companies only make 10% profit is full of it. Either that or he works for the oil company. He sounds exactly like an oil company employee that I talked to last year while on one of my commuting flights. And he tries to blame Chavez in South America for our oil price crunch! Pathetic. Chavez is a Communist but he is not the culprit for this skyrocketing oil price crisis. Culprits are right here in the US, in our government and in the top management of all major oil industry corporations.

For every dollar that goes up in jet fuel price, airlines lose millions, I was told by an American Airlines finance department employee. If this keeps up, something's got to give, and it ain't the oil companies' profits, I reckon.

There have been a number of posts suggesting heavy taxation of oil companies. I seems to me that such action may result in an increase of oil prices.

As taxes increase, the profit incentive decreases. As the percentage of revenue ending up in producer's pockets decreases, so does the profit incentive. Production then begins to decline as investors seek to deploy their capital more effectively. Supplies tighten further without a change in demand and..... you can guess the rest.

What do you think?

I think profit incentive NEVER decrease when oil companies are concerned. Your theory has a lot of assumptions which by the way has been suggested and proven to be not true. Kind a like the trickle down theory. The production level of oil is not determined by how the oil companies are taxed. The OPEC countries determine that, and who knows what formula they use. I am certainly not privy to that information, nor are you for that matter. The number of posts suggested here recommend taxation along with price regulation at the same time. Many have also admitted that that will never happen when the administration and the Congress are in bed with the oil companies and the consumers are brainwashed into thinking like you do.

Harsh words, man. You're name-calling based on one paragraph of opinion? Take another Valium and chill.....

Brain washed may have been a little harsh but tired of hearing same old excuses and theories by oil company officials as to why oil price needs to keep going up. I use this forum to get myself chilled. Thanks.

Profit Margin=Net Income/Revenue

ExxonMobile 2007 profit margin=$40,610/$404,552=10%

The numbers are from its 2007 10K (filed with the SEC).

10% does not seem egregious to me regardless of the amount of revenue its on.

As a typical example, Exxon reported $220 billion in revenues and a $20 billion net profit for one of their quarters last year. That means expenses incurred were $200 billion, from which they made a $20 billion profit. $20 billion is 10% of $200 billion, hence the conclusion that Exxon made a 10% profit. That is a very standard and appropriate American business profit margin. Some quarters may vary within 1-2% of those numbers.

It's a dead end road to bash an American industry that is posting 10% profits. Just ask Congress. I think you, and many others, are projecting the anger and fustration you feel about the underperformance of your own industry on to the oil industry.

If you want to be mad, be mad, but be mad at the right people. Look at your own industry and ask yourself about the competency and motivatioins of the peope running that sector.

Why can't your managers post a standard 10% profit?

And how much complaining would you do if they did?

JP

Everyone still says it's okay to make a 10% profit, but what they can't explain is how the price of a bbl of oil has gone through the roof, yet the oil companies are STILL only making a 10% profit. Where is the rest of the money going? The price of oil is up over 50% in the past year or so, yet the margins are still only 10%? I don't believe for one moment that the cost of refining that oil has gone up that fast. Someone needs to start investigating what's going on before the whole USA house of cards comes tumbling down. :(

You are clearly not an airline pilot, so why don't you go to some other forum and spread false information.

Anyone who has ever taken accounting courses know that net profit is after a corporation has taken out ALL expenses including those multi-million dollar CEO salaries, expense accounts and overinflated costs ranging everything from their corporate flight departments running 100 million dollar jets etc. 10% net profit is after all these so called costs have been taken out. It's kind a like if you made 200,000 dollars and you wrote off $180,000 as expenses and claim you only made 10% profit.
I don't think American public is as stupid as you think they are.

Oil industry has the monopoly and don't tell us that continuing oil price is a natural business phenomena.

As to airline industry not performing, we as pilots don't run the airlines, we just fly the airplanes. But I think airlines profits will go UP considerably if the fuel prices are kept in check by the government instead of letting it run amok to satisfy the greed of the oil industry.