Well, it's simply incorrect. For starters, the IBT doesn't represent many carriers with larger aircraft. ABX is really their biggest large-airplane operation, and they come in far behind in total compensation compared to their ALPA peers at FedEx. Another problem is that you're just looking at payrates. Horizon is represented by the IBT, and they have great payrates, but their total compensation is below ASA and ExpressJet, which are both ALPA carriers with lower payrates. The difference is in work rules. The IBT isn't a pilots' union, so they don't know how to structure work rules to maximize soft pay. They also don't know how to handle pilot grievances, accident investigations, aeromedical, and on and on. If you're a trucker, then go with the IBT. If you're a pilot, then go with THE pilots' union: ALPA.

PCL I will disagree with you on this point. I have belonged to both ALPA and IBT affiliated Airlines and in my humble opinion ALPA is great for Legacy type carriers and the IBT can be a more productive union for smaller carriers like Skybus, Miami Air, etc. I know that the IBT does not offer the same type of perks like ALPA (Loss of License Insurance, Life Insurance, etc) but many if not most of the guys they represent have a hard time affording those products any way. uba727

Please provide information for why the IBT does a better job of representing small carriers. I was an MEC member at a regional carrier represented by ALPA, and you couldn't have paid me enough to get rid of ALPA for the IBT. The resources provided by ALPA for the smaller carriers are simply unbelievable. ALPA spends far more money on the small carriers than they ever pay in dues.

If I remember well you were at Pinnacle correct? I think you guys had over 1000 pilots and well over 100 aircraft right? I am talking about companies with less than 200 pilots and 10 to 20 maybe even 30 aircraft. ALPA is too big for a small outfit like that, small companies need more individual attention in my opinion than larger ones. That is what I am trying to say. I think I did mention that the IBT does not offer the perks that are offered by ALPA, you get no argument from me on that point. uba757

The small carriers are the ones that need ALPA more than anyone. A carrier with only 10 or 20 aircraft simply doesn't have the expertise in such a small pilot group to negotiate a contract, defend pilots from discipline, handle R & I issues, etc...

We can go back and forth all night and I guess we would not come to any agreement my friend. In my experience at Miami Air, I found that the IBT was the right answer for us at that time. uba727

I once worked for a 13 airplane 121 supplemental freight outfit that was IBT. It worked out fine.

Probably true. :D

Why does everyone look at the 1st yr pay? A F/O at SX makes $30,000/yr for the first 3 yrs (or close to it after everything taken into account). I guarrantee you at the other carriers you listed above, a F/O makes ALOT more than that during his 2nd and 3rd yr!

I was responding to Bluejuice's "FIRST YEAR PAY BEING PATHETIC" comment, anyway since Skybus is less that one year old how do you know what third year pay is going to be like. Oh remember when you ASSUME it makes an A$$ out of you. This is the same $hit I used to hear when I flew for Comair. Mesa sucks, they are bringing the industry down and so on and so on. The funniest thing is that much of the attacking is coming from guys that work at the same LCC's that Legacy pilots used to blame for starting this down swing spiral in compensation. I guess when you guys took jobs for less money than what the legacy carriers were paying for the same equipment it was OK but now that someone else is doing it, you must protest and try to put them down and call them names. You are all a bunch of hypocrites. uba727