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the summer from hell

Old 01-28-2006, 11:46 AM
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Default the summer from hell

I read the thread about united losing 17 billion. I did some web searching and I came across some interesting information at www.airlinesafety.com on the front page. It was about the summer from hell at united. Some interesting posts about the work slow down that lead to the beginning of the end as they call it. I would recommend checking it out. Go to www.airlinesafety.com and go down until you see labor costs. Who is Frederick Dubinsky. "We just want to choke to golden goose until there are no eggs left." Looking at united in the past few years, I want to choke this guy. Would any united pilots or industry experts like to tell me their side of the story about the summer from hell, and how it was either justified, came back to hurt them, or with hindsight they would have not done it. The graphs and charts make it seem like the pilots really hurt theirselves.
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Old 01-28-2006, 03:03 PM
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I'd bet airline management all over the world loves that site...blame it ALL on the union employees...

I didn't even see ONE article where management was ever complicit for the industry's woes...as in FINANCIAL and ASSET MISMANAGEMENT, creating and maintaining a poor SAFETY CULTURE, HOSTILE and ADVERSARIAL work environments, LOW WAGES, etc., etc.

Am I saying unions are the be-all/end-all? Of course not...they have their faults as well. While there may be much truth to some issues, there are ALWAYS two sides...

The site is run by a supposed retired United captain, and he offers no alternative views other than those that support his bias...unless it's posted to discount or argue against.

Not a very balanced view, and he seems to have a very specific agenda...read the articles for factual value, but remember the obvious slant in every POSTED (as opposed to the ones that may be selectively bypassed?) article, reply or editorial...

Also, if you look at the graphs that you were referring to, look at the declining share price. Stockholders had already lost faith in United, and the pilot contract apparently wasn't even an issue yet...United warned of missing the 3rd quarter target...and the pilot contract wasn't ratified yet. So how can anyone blame United's downfall solely on the "overpaid" pilots? (Mis)Management had a hand in United's decline long before the pilot contract came to be.

Slow down? Well, according to that graph, Delta and American had the EXACT same slumps at the SAME time in on-time performance? Might it be a disproportionate amount for United? Maybe. I obviously don't have the inside management scoop during that time, but could it have been exacerbated by AIRCRAFT or ROUTE mismanagment by United management long before the slow down?

Just some thoughts...

Last edited by MD11driver; 01-28-2006 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 01-28-2006, 03:48 PM
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Some interesting posts about the work slow down that lead to the beginning of the end as they call it.
The truth is UAL pilots started flying the contract that summer and didn't bend like most pilot do - at any airline - to make the operation work. A work slowdown - hardly!

What made the "summer of love" so bad was that airline was under-staffed in the narrowbody fleets and ORD just got HAMMERED by summer thunderstorms that year. The ALPA scheduling committee had been telling the company that the operation would reach critical mass (WELL documented), and it finally did.

Instead of running an airline that summer, UAL Corp was offering $60/share for US Airways, and trying to start a fractional jet operation. They threw away around $4 BILLION in those two blunders with nothing to show, and failed to leave anyone behind to mind the store (to run the operation).

What happened in the Summer of 2000 was NOT a work slowdown by any stretch. Pilots had been "saving" the operation by bending the contract in favor of the company while telling the company that this type of operation was not sustainable. ALPA was met by a "you fly, we'll manage" attitude and the pilots finally stopped bending the rules and the operation imploded.

ALPA and UAL were in contract negotciations so it's really easy to blame labor for a "slowdown" as part of the barganing process, however, that wasn't the case. At some point you get tired of beating your head against the wall and simply stop.

In the summer of 2000, ALPA pilots at UAL simply started flying their contract as any suggestion to increase staffing was met with a deaf ear by UAL. It IS unfortunate that it came to that, but it's a universal trait in managemnt that they only listen when money is on the line.

I guess that's the difference between leaders and managers.
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Old 01-28-2006, 09:28 PM
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What do you think about the golden goose quote.
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Old 01-28-2006, 09:42 PM
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The editor of airlinesafety.com, R.J. Boser, is listed on the ALPA scab list (UAL 85). What a shocker!!!
 
Old 01-28-2006, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by iahflyr
What do you think about the golden goose quote.
What about it? What's a union boss's job?

I think if that quote were in context he would have been sued by for failing to fulfil his fiduciary obligations to the UAL board of directors (you do realize he was on the UAL BOD at the time, right?). Of course that never happened did it?
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Old 01-29-2006, 06:25 AM
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From this perspective, if we go back 25 or 30 years and look at "all" the airlines that failed, we see a pattern that is not deniable. Each airline had a different management team and each one failed.
Can all of these management teams be incompetant?
How many of these failed airlines had their pilots representated by ALPA?
When United failed, the CEO in charge was hand picked and installed, several years earlier, by ALPA and the IAM.
The summer of 2000 was not the final nail in the coffin, but it drove the premium customer to other airlines and the recipients made sure the perks were such that they did not come back to United.
Such is the world of competition.
If you're serious about a different perspective I am on the ALPA scab list of 85. As we could see the handwriting on the wall.
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Old 01-29-2006, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by feriegel
If you're serious about a different perspective I am on the ALPA scab list of 85. As we could see the handwriting on the wall.
one of the brave 200 or so who crossed the line. what a tool. and fifteen years ahead of your time!
 
Old 01-29-2006, 08:53 AM
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Come on. Not one post mentions that the pilot slowdown might have been excessive and eventually came back to bite the pilots in the butt, and extremely hard. I still have not heard a good argument other than "it was managements fault, not ours"
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Old 01-29-2006, 09:04 AM
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Default 20/20 hindsight and ESOP comments

Originally Posted by feriegel
The summer of 2000 was not the final nail in the coffin, but it drove the premium customer to other airlines and the recipients made sure the perks were such that they did not come back to United.
Certain airlines cater to certain individuals. Southwest caters to people who want to get from SAN to MEM, and they don't mind stopping in PHX, HOU, and BWI. United is completely on the opposite end of the spectrum. They cater to the frequent fliers. The ones who don't mind paying a little extra for some more leg room, some free pillows and blankets, free food on flights over 5 hours, and such. The ones who will drop thousands of dollars on a fully reclined lay flat first class bed seat.

By driving away these kind of customers, United pilots certainly made a mistake. It is easy to say with 20/20 hindsight that Frederick Dubinsky was an idiot, and the pilots made a mistake that hurt them. But in 2000, after United was profitable for 5+ years, the pilots felt like they deserved more. Warning to the wise at UPS, other carriers in contract talks... Use your power, work for quality of life and pay, but don't do anything for a substantial period of time that will hurt you later on.

One interesting graph on Airline Safety was the ESOP graph, and how it related to profits. I know people are complaining about the exec bonuses, but I think this graph is a good indication of what happens when you give your workforce bonuses. United workers got ESOP's in 1994, and they went on a 6 year run of some pretty substantial profits.
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