Can't agree with this let the market work it out unchecked stuff. If there's a hurricane in, let's say New Orleans, and an individual raises the price of gas at his/her gas station to $10/gal, the government would burn that person. If there was a less localized disaster like, let's say a "Wah ohn Terra", the oil companies can post record profits while our young men and women die to protect those profits. Unchecked capitalism is the reason that your CEO makes over 400 times what you make. The market can't be trusted to make ethical decisions. In your defense, neither can the government.

A320,
One can make a very valid argument that Katrina charging $10/a gallon is NOT a free market example. It is a captive market affected by disaster. Not uniform market conditions. Hence, already covered by applicable laws to prevent "gouging". All agrees capitalism does require ethics, the argument is that our moral decay in America has led to a decline in ethics that follows to the boardroom. Simply put, the argument here is that airline managements do not charge enough for their product.

Next time please quote my entire post correctly as I did mention the need for the government to investigate fraud however the last time I checked oil companies posting record profits isn't fraud.

Profiteering during a state of emergency is something completely different and I wasn't talking about that specifically as it's illegal and takes unfair advantage of the consumer in a non competitive market.

I have no problem if the CEO of any corporation makes 400 times more than I make. Irrelevant to this topic.

EAHINC

My CEO doesn't make 400 times what I make, his salary is negotiated between the shareholders and the CEO. Capitalism is far from unchecked in this country. Although the airline business has not been one of sterling performance, it is hard to blame capitalism for it's failures.

I find it far easier to trust a corporation in a free economy, than to trust a government that has saddled this country with a 9.5 Trillion dollar debt. That isn't what we call responsible economics. Tell us who has acted more responsibly-oil companies or the guys on Capitol Hill?

You imply that the government can actually do something to control the world market price of oil, would you mind outlining what that strategy might be?

the only reason that dept is still their is because they haven't filed bankrupcy like most of the airlines. :D

how much money have the airlines made since deregulation. I've always heard as a whole they haven't actually turned a profit. that could have been false info that I've seen, but it's what I remember reading.

I quoted the portion of your post that my rebuttal was germane to. If you haven't noticed, we are in a national disaster that is a product of our reliance on foreign oil, and the fleecing of America by big business enabled by our government. A really wise 2 star General, my former commander, told me that "a prudent and ethical organization should have the same values as a prudent and ethical person"; this as we chatted on my jumpseat during his last flight out of Iraq before retirement. There is no difference between some jerk who takes advantage of Katrina to sell gas @ $10/gal to get record profits and Exxon-Mobil posting record profits while are young men and women die in distant oil rich regions, then come home to lose their homes because of unethical wall street "pure capitalists". So sick of guys who think that George Washington managed a hedge fund and Jesus was born in Texas. The last comment is not directed at you.

A lot of misdirected anger here. Actually the real fleecing of America has been by our government, to the tune of 9.5 Trillion dollars.

I haven't heard of young men and women dying and then coming back to lose their homes. I know what you mean, but that just isn't happening-people losing their homes were the ones who got in way over their financial limits.

Your anger at large oil is directed at a company making roughly a ten percent profit selling something most Americans want. Why is that unfair?

It may be a surprise to you, but without Americas vibrant free economy, we would be just another third-world also ran. It isn't uncommon to hate and fear what we don't understand, but America would be much less a country without the largest economy in the world.

I wouldn't term a rise in the price of oil a natural disaster, it is just economic evolution and it will tend to drive us to seek alternates.

Prudent and ethical means spending within reasonable limits and treating people fairly, I see many more business' doing this than elected officials. I'm glad you mentioned George Washington-take a good look at the reason our founding fathers started this country, the pursuit of individual and economic freedom.

[quote=jungle;342459]My CEO doesn't make 400 times what I make, his salary is negotiated between the shareholders and the CEO. Capitalism is far from unchecked in this country. Although the airline business has not been one of sterling performance, it is hard to blame capitalism for it's failures.

I find it far easier to trust a corporation in a free economy, than to trust a government that has saddled this country with a 9.5 Trillion dollar debt. That isn't what we call responsible economics. Tell us who has acted more responsibly-oil companies or the guys on Capitol Hill?

You imply that the government can actually do something to control the world market price of oil, would you mind outlining what that strategy might be?[/quote]

Jungle:

Forgive me but I'm an idealist. I think that the Founding Father's weren't trying to create a bastion of capitalism, but a representative democracy that was more concerned with protecting an individuals right to the pursuit of happiness and freedom. Therefore we probably have no chance of agreeing with each other. That being said, I'm glad you asked because I do have a few ideas. 1) Let's not engage in extremely expensive wars and cut taxes. 2)If we go to war, let's do it together, as a nation; Didn't meet many pure capitalists, or their children, in Iraq or the Stan. 3) Let's stop kissing Saudi and Chinese ass, and holding hands with them. 4)Let's put the energy and money that we put into invading sovereign nations into our education system; kinda funny that we'll chase Osama to the end's of the earth and keep our young folks over in Iraq to defend the oil companies profits, but we've given up on public schools. 5)Lastly, in a Kennedy space program kinda way, let's sacrifice, as a nation, to get off foreign oil within ten years. Maybe even offer an incentive to entrepreneurs and capitalists, like yourself, to come up with the technology to do it. I know that you're probably thinking about how this will affect your portfolio, I am too, but we've got to do better, as a nation, than we are. Hope that doesn't digust you too much, but you did ask.

Their wive's lose the homes. As a military commander I deal with it a lot. I hate that I even mentioned them to you. Bailing out!

[QUOTE=A320fumes;342702]
I agree with 1-3, 4-privatize and lets get some real competition,public school spending has gone way up and results have gone down, 5-the prize is there for any company or group improving our energy situation, indeed many companies have been chasing that goal for a long time. You can't legislate technology. There is already a tremendous incentive and we have made huge strides in efficiency.
It doesn't disgust me at all, but I would caution against government control-look at the mess they have made of Medicaid, SS, and the public school system. We are always better off with options we are free to choose as individuals.

The pursuit of happiness and freedom will always be tied to economic freedom, if you don't have two dimes to rub together it is awful hard to be happy. Forty acres and a mule and all that.