Supply and demand!!!
 

I have a question to all the major airline pilots out there.
I'm currently flying cargo for Ameriflight and lately I have been jumpseating with several airlines (major) and every time I jumpseat the plane is full and people are on standby list to get onboard. So, I have to be in the flight deck with the crew.:D

My question is why don't they add new routes or add new airplanes? Or increase ticket cost. It seems the demand is out there, even though we are facing a dark periord.

Good luck

They're probably all full because of cancellations, passengers from previous flights being pushed to later ones.

I dunno a lot of the flights I've tried to get on even before all the mx cancelations were always full. Flying shouldn't be cheaper than driving.

Just because flights are full, doesnt mean they are making money. Tickets are cheaper now than ever before.

I think the demand is out there. Even increasing the tickets, no doubt people will fly.

I believe that was the original poster's point. With such high demand, the airlines are not charging the amount that they could. I personally don't know, but I believe people will fly with higher prices. It seems like there is some artificial fear out there to raise prices.

Domestic travel has become a commodity with a very elastic demand curve. Furthermore the way most people buy tickets these days, internet resellers, hinders individual companies ability to raise prices. Go to CheapTickets/Hotwire/Expedia and search for a flight. They rank order flights by price. One dollar difference could put you on page two. Unless all the players agree to raise the price you lose market share. Add to that the LCC undercutters and you see the problem. That is why the majors are back dooring people with added bag charges, fuel surcharges, etc.
Just my HO and junior economic analysis.

You are correct. Ticket prices should go up. You're smart enough to be CEO of an airline. I'm serious, I'm not being "smart". I think the reason the ticket prices don't go up (even though the demand and fuel costs demand it) is that there is competition. People go online and book the cheapest fare for a flight(s) between point A and B. They don't care if it's on "GO" or any airline. They don't care how many connections they have to make. They just want to save $5 on their round trip from A to B. That drives the price down because everyone is trying to be the "cheap" airline that people buy their tickets on. The industry would be better off without the internet. We need phone reservations and travel agencies back. People couldn't figure out the pricing and it wasn't easy to compare airlines.

If you take just a 90-seat passenger airline aircraft...if the crew held out a tip jar, and assuming 2 FAs and 2 pilots. If every passenger just tipped $4 every flight, $1 per crew member, each crewmember would make $54,000 in addition to their current salary. Lets take a 1hr30min flight for example, and say you fly 900 hours per year (airline pilots are limited to 1000 hours per year)...

Makes for an avg. of 600 flights per year.

Each crew member would make $54,000 more per year (before tax) in addition to their current salary. i.e take $23,000 starting for 1st yr. FO that would be $77,000. This theory disappoints me. But so true and so simple. It is only $4 per passenger. Lets put the word 'profession' back into the professional pilot career. PASS THE WORD ON.

They can do the same for fuel prices. Just raise it an additional $1 or $2 in addition for jet fuel, making it $6 more per 1.5 hour flight. Just a few bucks will help with fuel prices, for now.

What is $6 per person on a $500 ticket? Its negligible. But goes a long long way.

The Oil companies have figured it out, its time that the airlines followed their lead!
Either consolidation or cooperation to rise prices are the only things that can save the industry

Your tips are my salary? lol

thanks for the greate information guys. If every airline agreed to increase their ticket prices for only 5 dollars!!!!! then CAL, DAL, and other ones wouldn't cancel their classes:D.

fly safe out there!!!

"Cooperation" to raise ticket prices is illegal. Also, if one airline raises fares on a route, there is no guarantee that the others on the same route will follow suit. I am absolutely no apologist for management, but this is a very competitive business and raising fares ain't as simple as all that.

Some form of re-regulation is the only thing that will bring fares up. And with re-regulation many of us might not have jobs flying airplanes.

Hate to say it, but it's a tough business.

Yes I know "cooperation" is illegal. I mean more like an understanding between the airlines that they could raise fares to a level that can sustain profits. Though I do agree with you that this is nearly imposible in that someone will always try to undercut the rest. Which I believe more often than not is the LCC's. If they were to raise their fares the big legacies would do so in an instant.

Everybody knows that full planes that don't make money are better than partially full planes that make money.

At least that's the theory for our airlines.

I like the language. Sounds like an Embraer.

You may be on to something.....Get a sign that says "I work for tips". :)

Yup. The mighty jumbo shrimp. This plane might be the king of freakin' acronyms.

Reminds me of the Bud Light Real Men of Genius "Discount Airline Pilot Guy" ad, "sure we're concerned for our safety, just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a round trip to Ft. Meyers."

A quick Google search will turn up a You Tube video or 4 with the radio ad in them if you've never heard it.

Not to be sarcastic, but if fares like $49/one-way based on a roundtrip ticket were to go away, would airlines be able to raise fares and revenue per avail seat mile to make certain routes profitable ?

A couple snipets from former lives:

If Brand X were to raise their fare $1 on the route : Anytown USA to Your Town USA; Brand Y would be listed as the carrier with the lowest fare, while Brand X would be listed as the carrier with the highest fare. Sounds silly, but not all passengers are brand-loyal so much so as they are pocketbook loyal.

"Give me the cheapest ticket !!!" And the result: Brand Y, even though Brand X is only $1 more.

Second tidbit: When I worked at Brand X we were the small fish on the trans-con market: JFK to SFO/LAX. We competed against two of the big carriers (pre-Jetblue). We wanted to fill our planes up by lowering fares on the route JFK to SFO and JFK to LAX. In response, the two big carriers reduced all the fares into and out of STL which basically poached traffic away from us at our mainstay hub.

Is this illegal...nope. Is this a form of oligopoly...arguably, yes. The price on the transcon market was set by the big guys (pre-Jetblue) to cover their costs and any small fish that wanted to cut into that traffic was going to have to march in step or face the wrath of the big guys.

FF

True, but if it were not, people would drive, and load factors would go down in a heartbeat. A good example is the high-speed train between DC / NY / Boston. When you factor in driving to the airport, TSA, accomodations and amnenities worse than a Greyhound bus (and the same weirdo's next to you), the train is a great option as you're treated better and takes less time when you add it all up. And you don't get cancelled by weather. As a result, it's hard to get a seat.

Two other points to ponder. WRT the LCC's...most don't use resellers, and in the case of SWA and JB their ticket prices are well above the majors serving the same routes. Evidently the passengers are willing to pay more for a better "experience". I know I am.

Second, look at how the fractional industry is booming, especially considering that most of their new clients are individuals and not corporations. That's a clue that a big portion of the market values convenience and their time over cost.....just the customers that the majors would love, but have totally abandoned.

Just my $.02

Spongebob

Airlines raise, and lower, prices constantly. When prices are increased they get immediate feedback on how the new price is affecting booking. If they see too much of a drop in bookings then the price increase fails.

There are two ways that an airline can raise prices. First, they can increase the actual fares and they do. Another way is to decrease the number of tickets that they make available at the lower fares. If they were selling up to 20 of the cheapest fares on a flight they can reduce that to 15. The result is that they've raised the price on five of the seats.

Speaking of trains they have more room than F/C does:cool:

To get these types of customers back, airlines would have to drastically improve their services and treatment of passengers. For instance, first class meals served at most major airlines are usually not good, though good may not be the word I had in mind. Interiors of their jets needs great improvement for comfort.

j

How about when the customer 'was right' instead of the post-9/11 way that FAs treat passengers. Basically, if a passenger even disagrees with something a FA says, the FA can claim some sort of disruption and have some federal agency at the gate waiting when the plane lands. I do understand the need to empower the FAs to some extent. I also think that the caliber of passenger has gotten bad. On top of both of those, I believe people act the way they are treated, and right now, passengers using airlines feels like a cow headed to slaughter throughout the entire process; up to and including the actual flight. If there were some level of respect given to the passengers, I think many would act more reasonably.

When the Navy is not paying the bill, I only fly first class (VERY RARELY DUE TO PRICE). I feel like I am treated in first class the way I was treated in coach 15 years ago.

Of course, the primary reason I do not fly commercially more than about 1 time per year is that I would rather go to the dentist than go to an airport.

I hear ya, and I agree. Even as an airline pilot, I get greeted often with disrespect by gate agents and FAs (sometimes by same airline FAs I fly for!).
I think the wages these airlines pay only gets them people with sour attitudes and subquality. To top if off, TSA people at security checkpoints are the highlight of the beginning of our trips, where we are often treated with contempt even though they would not have their jobs if it wasn't for airlines. No one likes to start their trip having to go through the TSA experience and subject themselves to disrespect and removing their shoes to on walk on dirty floors, and can't even carry bottled water.

The bottom line is airline management does not care or are they interested in spending money to improve the quality and the level of customer service required to attract the high clientele they would like to get back. These passengers have long since gone over to their private jets or to fractional ownership route or foreign airline First Class route. Next time you fly international, compare Foreign Airlines First Class service to that of US major carrier First Class experience. You will see the difference.

Tongue in cheek alert !
 

Therein lies the problem --too much empowerment by F/As compared to pre 9/11 , its as if this date gave them the green light to treat pax the way some of them do and before i get flamed .Go back to before 9/11 and think about the differences in F/A,s attitudes.
If they had treated pax this way back when I was flying pax a/c in the 80,s they would probably have been shown the door.
By the way you do not hear much about air rage aboard a/c these days do you?hmmmmmmmmmmm.:eek:


We hope you have enjoyed your flight aboard cattle car airlines!

Yep, and who better else to pay for all these "upgrades" and "ameneties" than the EMPLOYEES.............. Sorry, but we gave at the office. We are entitled to make a living too, and if that offends you, then so be it. I'm tired of all the passengers who think their bargain basement ticket entitles them to a first class seat, unlimited drinks, and to be treated like a king or queen. Our vacation passes are less than worthless due to all the "entitlements" of the passengers who "demand" they be treated with respect while we are walked all over and given the "leftovers". You want comfort, but are you willing to pay for it? With fuel at the price it is, I'm surprised we haven't put in aluminum lawn chairs to save on weight............ Everyone demands the best but only wants to pay the least.......................and you get what you pay for.:eek:

Better yet I,m surprised they have not devised a way to have SRO in A/C and yes I agree we are all supposed to be making a living at this but some unfortunately do not see it this way for some unknown reason.
As for respect I remember it was supposed to be earned not handed out like candy.Maybe I missed something along the way.:eek:

Evidently, there is a significant segment that is saying "yes'...look at Southwest, AirTran, Midwest, JetBlue, EOS and the growth in not only Franctionals but the Charter business.

In case you haven't looked, the "LCC's" are not the cheapest tickets out there (sometimes significantly more expensive), yet their load factors remain high.

Unfortunately, the major airlines have totally abandoned their ability to capture this market (those willing to pay more for better service) by focusing on load factors which requires the ensuing attack on variable costs. Based on my last couple DH's to Europe, the majors have now introduced this same level of service to overseas travel too....yet, Cathay Pacific just had a record quarter/year - with $100/barrel oil. There being no comparasion in level of service/comfort between them and United (for one).

Spongebob