A Modest Proposal for Reinventing Aviation
06-19-2008, 12:51 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B737 CA
Posts: 1,518
A Modest Proposal for Reinventing Aviation
I'm tired of everyone b!itching on these boards about how bad things are throughout the industry but not contributing any ideas on how to make things better. What I'm outlining below is an idea I've had for a while and have been honing by talking about it with my FOs and pilot friends and getting their suggestions.
The problem with ALPA, it's occurred to me, is that it's not really a national union, it's simply an umbrella organization that provides services to individual unions, ie the various airlines' MECs. As such, there's not much more coordination between ALPA carriers than there is between, say, SWAPA and APA. This was fine when pattern bargaining allowed each airline's pilots to build on others success without close coordination, but that strategy has been utterly turned on its ear with the breakdown of scope. Now the only "pattern bargaining" that seems to happen is pilots undercutting each other to secure their flying from being bid on by another company, with no apparent referee looking out for what's best for the profession. This structural flaw in ALPA has been compounded by an utter lack of leadership and vision at the national officer level.
What we need is for all the MECs in ALPA, as well as the independent unions outside ALPA, to work much more closely under an umbrella organization. I'm proposing a Guild covering every airline pilot in the United States. Here's how it would work:
The Guild would set pay rates for all Part 121 flying at US airlines. The pay rate would be a constant formula applying to all aircraft types. The formula would consist of base pay plus a commission for every seat on the airplane. In 2008 dollars, I suggest a base rate of $40,000/yr for CAs and $24,000/yr for FOs, with a commission of $1 per seat per hour for CAs and $.60/seat/hr for FOs. This rate would have an annual inflation adjustment indexed to the Federal Consumer Price Index.
These rates would apply to all pilots regardless of longevity. Longevity pay has actually come to work against us; having an experienced pilot group has become a major negative to companies and has driven both the outsourcing of flying to regionals and the startup of new low cost carriers. From an economic standpoint, a 2nd year pilot generates revenue as efficiently as a 12 year pilot and should be compensated accordingly. Eliminating low pay for the most junior pilots would make it much less painless to switch airlines in case of economic difficulty or labor problems.
The Guild would set baselines for work rules and benefits. Individual unions could negotiate contracts with work rules and benefits that differ from the baselines, but the economic sum of the differences must equal zero. The idea is that all airlines will have identical crew costs on aircraft of the same size. This will force the airlines to succeed on the strength of their management rather than their ability to whipsaw labor.
The Guild would have a governing board composed of one representative from each member airline. Each member union's bylaws would give the board veto power over Tentative Agreements to ensure that all contracts meet Guild standards. Contracts could have a much greater length than today's contracts; 10-15 year contracts could be achieved. All contracts would be negotiated to become amendable at the same time, so that if the board decides the standards need changing it can be implemented at all carriers simultaneously.
Pilots could join the Guild as soon as they earn their Commercial certificate, but would not be required to pay dues until at a FAR121 carrier. When they join, pilots would agree to never fly for less than Guild rates. Guild membership would be a mandatory prerequisite for employment at any Guild airline, by contract. Pilots at non-union carriers could retain Guild membership so long as their airline meets Guild standards for pay, work rules, and benefits. Flying at a Part 121 airline for less than Guild rates would result in permanent revocation of membership (and therefore ineligibility for hire at any Guild airline).
The proposed Guild rates reflect a major increase over today's payrates and would require nearly simultaneous implementation over the industry to make them stick. Although crew costs would increase significantly over today, it'd be palatable to management since none of their competitors would have an advantage over them in this area. The actual cost increase per ticket is not appreciable enough to cut demand (I calculate a cost increase of $2.20 per passenger for a LAX-MSP segment in a 757 on Northwest, for example). Additionally, management would gain total predictability in labor costs, making long-range planning much easier. Labor costs would not increase with the "graying" of the airline. There would be much less labor strife and very infrequent negotiations. All this would make a Guild arrangement something management could live with, provided it went into effect across the industry simultaneously and remained universal or very nearly so.
Of course sooner or later a management team would try to "cheat" by using the bankruptcy process, lockout, or alter ego to get a leg up on all their competitors. The Guild would not attempt to strike in these cases; instead, every Guild pilot will be expected to resign rather than fly for less than Guild rates. The goal of Mass Resignations would be the permanent destruction of the airline to set an example for other management teams against attempting to circumvent the Guild. All pilots who lost their jobs in a Mass Resignation would be paid a livable stipend by the Guild and given contract-mandated preferential hiring at all Guild airlines.
The uniformity of pay scales, the lack of longevity pay, and the way that base pay would give larger airframes a cheaper CASM will all combine to give management much less reason to outsource. Guild policy would be to allow management to outsource up to 20% of their total ASMs, with no limit on aircraft size, to other Guild airlines only. Under this policy it is expected that most flying would eventually be brought in-house.
One might consider all this to be fairly utopian, but it's really not; while a Guild system is new to aviation, it's been used successfully in a number of other professions. Guilds are common to electricians, plumbers, and Amsterdam's prostitutes - all of whom make more money than many airline pilots.
This would take a lot of work. Even moreso, it would take a lot of leadership from ALPA national in conjunction with the individual MECs and independent unions. I don't think the current leadership is capable of embracing such a change. However, the pilots most likely to recognize that such a change is necessary - regional pilots and junior pilots at the majors - have the numbers necessary to stage a takeover of ALPA. I suggest a grassroots effort to elect a slate of candidates whose primary agenda is the establishment of an industry-wide Guild.
Who's In?
The problem with ALPA, it's occurred to me, is that it's not really a national union, it's simply an umbrella organization that provides services to individual unions, ie the various airlines' MECs. As such, there's not much more coordination between ALPA carriers than there is between, say, SWAPA and APA. This was fine when pattern bargaining allowed each airline's pilots to build on others success without close coordination, but that strategy has been utterly turned on its ear with the breakdown of scope. Now the only "pattern bargaining" that seems to happen is pilots undercutting each other to secure their flying from being bid on by another company, with no apparent referee looking out for what's best for the profession. This structural flaw in ALPA has been compounded by an utter lack of leadership and vision at the national officer level.
What we need is for all the MECs in ALPA, as well as the independent unions outside ALPA, to work much more closely under an umbrella organization. I'm proposing a Guild covering every airline pilot in the United States. Here's how it would work:
The Guild would set pay rates for all Part 121 flying at US airlines. The pay rate would be a constant formula applying to all aircraft types. The formula would consist of base pay plus a commission for every seat on the airplane. In 2008 dollars, I suggest a base rate of $40,000/yr for CAs and $24,000/yr for FOs, with a commission of $1 per seat per hour for CAs and $.60/seat/hr for FOs. This rate would have an annual inflation adjustment indexed to the Federal Consumer Price Index.
These rates would apply to all pilots regardless of longevity. Longevity pay has actually come to work against us; having an experienced pilot group has become a major negative to companies and has driven both the outsourcing of flying to regionals and the startup of new low cost carriers. From an economic standpoint, a 2nd year pilot generates revenue as efficiently as a 12 year pilot and should be compensated accordingly. Eliminating low pay for the most junior pilots would make it much less painless to switch airlines in case of economic difficulty or labor problems.
The Guild would set baselines for work rules and benefits. Individual unions could negotiate contracts with work rules and benefits that differ from the baselines, but the economic sum of the differences must equal zero. The idea is that all airlines will have identical crew costs on aircraft of the same size. This will force the airlines to succeed on the strength of their management rather than their ability to whipsaw labor.
The Guild would have a governing board composed of one representative from each member airline. Each member union's bylaws would give the board veto power over Tentative Agreements to ensure that all contracts meet Guild standards. Contracts could have a much greater length than today's contracts; 10-15 year contracts could be achieved. All contracts would be negotiated to become amendable at the same time, so that if the board decides the standards need changing it can be implemented at all carriers simultaneously.
Pilots could join the Guild as soon as they earn their Commercial certificate, but would not be required to pay dues until at a FAR121 carrier. When they join, pilots would agree to never fly for less than Guild rates. Guild membership would be a mandatory prerequisite for employment at any Guild airline, by contract. Pilots at non-union carriers could retain Guild membership so long as their airline meets Guild standards for pay, work rules, and benefits. Flying at a Part 121 airline for less than Guild rates would result in permanent revocation of membership (and therefore ineligibility for hire at any Guild airline).
The proposed Guild rates reflect a major increase over today's payrates and would require nearly simultaneous implementation over the industry to make them stick. Although crew costs would increase significantly over today, it'd be palatable to management since none of their competitors would have an advantage over them in this area. The actual cost increase per ticket is not appreciable enough to cut demand (I calculate a cost increase of $2.20 per passenger for a LAX-MSP segment in a 757 on Northwest, for example). Additionally, management would gain total predictability in labor costs, making long-range planning much easier. Labor costs would not increase with the "graying" of the airline. There would be much less labor strife and very infrequent negotiations. All this would make a Guild arrangement something management could live with, provided it went into effect across the industry simultaneously and remained universal or very nearly so.
Of course sooner or later a management team would try to "cheat" by using the bankruptcy process, lockout, or alter ego to get a leg up on all their competitors. The Guild would not attempt to strike in these cases; instead, every Guild pilot will be expected to resign rather than fly for less than Guild rates. The goal of Mass Resignations would be the permanent destruction of the airline to set an example for other management teams against attempting to circumvent the Guild. All pilots who lost their jobs in a Mass Resignation would be paid a livable stipend by the Guild and given contract-mandated preferential hiring at all Guild airlines.
The uniformity of pay scales, the lack of longevity pay, and the way that base pay would give larger airframes a cheaper CASM will all combine to give management much less reason to outsource. Guild policy would be to allow management to outsource up to 20% of their total ASMs, with no limit on aircraft size, to other Guild airlines only. Under this policy it is expected that most flying would eventually be brought in-house.
One might consider all this to be fairly utopian, but it's really not; while a Guild system is new to aviation, it's been used successfully in a number of other professions. Guilds are common to electricians, plumbers, and Amsterdam's prostitutes - all of whom make more money than many airline pilots.
This would take a lot of work. Even moreso, it would take a lot of leadership from ALPA national in conjunction with the individual MECs and independent unions. I don't think the current leadership is capable of embracing such a change. However, the pilots most likely to recognize that such a change is necessary - regional pilots and junior pilots at the majors - have the numbers necessary to stage a takeover of ALPA. I suggest a grassroots effort to elect a slate of candidates whose primary agenda is the establishment of an industry-wide Guild.
Who's In?
06-19-2008, 01:08 PM
#3
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,583
Originally Posted by JungleBus
This would take a lot of work. Even moreso, it would take a lot of leadership from ALPA national in conjunction with the individual MECs and independent unions. I don't think the current leadership is capable of embracing such a change. However, the pilots most likely to recognize that such a change is necessary - regional pilots and junior pilots at the majors - have the numbers necessary to stage a takeover of ALPA. I suggest a grassroots effort to elect a slate of candidates whose primary agenda is the establishment of an industry-wide Guild.
Who's In?
Who's In?
I think this makes complete sense and would be an excellent future for ALPA. But this last paragraph is the hard part. I am confused how you suggest all the regional pilots and junior pilots at legacies will 'stage a takeover of ALPA'?
06-19-2008, 01:14 PM
#4
Kerbal Rocket Surgeon
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DTW 717A
Posts: 1,099
I'll give you credit for taking the initiative and trying to make a difference rather than just *****ing about things. Why would any startup airline want to employ guild pilots though? They certainly dont care about expertise, experience, professionalism or qualifications. Just seems there are far too many saavy businessmen out there that know they can find a starry-eyed kid to fly a shiny jet for less than me.
Last edited by Phuz; 06-19-2008 at 01:15 PM. Reason: added an 'o'
06-19-2008, 01:17 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: CA
Posts: 534
great idea and most have thought about it. Just who's gonna organize it and stick their neck out? Start a petition with those you work with and network with other pilots at other carriers. Get a few thousand signatures on something and send it to alpa national. have the petition specifically mention using votes to get it through (no vote for anyone who will not push it). Also needs to be lead by someone who will be willing to give the most part of their life to it and be willing to lead it (This is where I fall off). It will have to be the priority of that person's life for years in order to get it done I fear and one would have to be completely sold out to seeing it through. I'm all for it and will follow...who would lead it and would they stick it out through thick and thin.
06-19-2008, 01:19 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: CA
Posts: 534
Originally Posted by Phuz
I'll give you credit for taking the initiative and trying to make a difference rather than just *****ing about things. Why would any startup airline want to employ guild pilots though? They certainly dont care about expertise, experience, professionalism or qualifications. Just seems there are far too many saavy businessmen out there that know they can find a starry-eyed kid to fly a shiny jet for less than me.
06-19-2008, 01:20 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Originally Posted by JungleBus
I'm tired of everyone b!itching on these boards about how bad things are throughout the industry but not contributing any ideas on how to make things better. What I'm outlining below is an idea I've had for a while and have been honing by talking about it with my FOs and pilot friends and getting their suggestions.
The problem with ALPA, it's occurred to me, is that it's not really a national union, it's simply an umbrella organization that provides services to individual unions, ie the various airlines' MECs. As such, there's not much more coordination between ALPA carriers than there is between, say, SWAPA and APA. This was fine when pattern bargaining allowed each airline's pilots to build on others success without close coordination, but that strategy has been utterly turned on its ear with the breakdown of scope. Now the only "pattern bargaining" that seems to happen is pilots undercutting each other to secure their flying from being bid on by another company, with no apparent referee looking out for what's best for the profession. This structural flaw in ALPA has been compounded by an utter lack of leadership and vision at the national officer level.
What we need is for all the MECs in ALPA, as well as the independent unions outside ALPA, to work much more closely under an umbrella organization. I'm proposing a Guild covering every airline pilot in the United States. Here's how it would work:
The Guild would set pay rates for all Part 121 flying at US airlines. The pay rate would be a constant formula applying to all aircraft types. The formula would consist of base pay plus a commission for every seat on the airplane. In 2008 dollars, I suggest a base rate of $40,000/yr for CAs and $24,000/yr for FOs, with a commission of $1 per seat per hour for CAs and $.60/seat/hr for FOs. This rate would have an annual inflation adjustment indexed to the Federal Consumer Price Index.
These rates would apply to all pilots regardless of longevity. Longevity pay has actually come to work against us; having an experienced pilot group has become a major negative to companies and has driven both the outsourcing of flying to regionals and the startup of new low cost carriers. From an economic standpoint, a 2nd year pilot generates revenue as efficiently as a 12 year pilot and should be compensated accordingly. Eliminating low pay for the most junior pilots would make it much less painless to switch airlines in case of economic difficulty or labor problems.
The Guild would set baselines for work rules and benefits. Individual unions could negotiate contracts with work rules and benefits that differ from the baselines, but the economic sum of the differences must equal zero. The idea is that all airlines will have identical crew costs on aircraft of the same size. This will force the airlines to succeed on the strength of their management rather than their ability to whipsaw labor.
The Guild would have a governing board composed of one representative from each member airline. Each member union's bylaws would give the board veto power over Tentative Agreements to ensure that all contracts meet Guild standards. Contracts could have a much greater length than today's contracts; 10-15 year contracts could be achieved. All contracts would be negotiated to become amendable at the same time, so that if the board decides the standards need changing it can be implemented at all carriers simultaneously.
Pilots could join the Guild as soon as they earn their Commercial certificate, but would not be required to pay dues until at a FAR121 carrier. When they join, pilots would agree to never fly for less than Guild rates. Guild membership would be a mandatory prerequisite for employment at any Guild airline, by contract. Pilots at non-union carriers could retain Guild membership so long as their airline meets Guild standards for pay, work rules, and benefits. Flying at a Part 121 airline for less than Guild rates would result in permanent revocation of membership (and therefore ineligibility for hire at any Guild airline).
The proposed Guild rates reflect a major increase over today's payrates and would require nearly simultaneous implementation over the industry to make them stick. Although crew costs would increase significantly over today, it'd be palatable to management since none of their competitors would have an advantage over them in this area. The actual cost increase per ticket is not appreciable enough to cut demand (I calculate a cost increase of $2.20 per passenger for a LAX-MSP segment in a 757 on Northwest, for example). Additionally, management would gain total predictability in labor costs, making long-range planning much easier. Labor costs would not increase with the "graying" of the airline. There would be much less labor strife and very infrequent negotiations. All this would make a Guild arrangement something management could live with, provided it went into effect across the industry simultaneously and remained universal or very nearly so.
Of course sooner or later a management team would try to "cheat" by using the bankruptcy process, lockout, or alter ego to get a leg up on all their competitors. The Guild would not attempt to strike in these cases; instead, every Guild pilot will be expected to resign rather than fly for less than Guild rates. The goal of Mass Resignations would be the permanent destruction of the airline to set an example for other management teams against attempting to circumvent the Guild. All pilots who lost their jobs in a Mass Resignation would be paid a livable stipend by the Guild and given contract-mandated preferential hiring at all Guild airlines.
The uniformity of pay scales, the lack of longevity pay, and the way that base pay would give larger airframes a cheaper CASM will all combine to give management much less reason to outsource. Guild policy would be to allow management to outsource up to 20% of their total ASMs, with no limit on aircraft size, to other Guild airlines only. Under this policy it is expected that most flying would eventually be brought in-house.
One might consider all this to be fairly utopian, but it's really not; while a Guild system is new to aviation, it's been used successfully in a number of other professions. Guilds are common to electricians, plumbers, and Amsterdam's prostitutes - all of whom make more money than many airline pilots.
This would take a lot of work. Even moreso, it would take a lot of leadership from ALPA national in conjunction with the individual MECs and independent unions. I don't think the current leadership is capable of embracing such a change. However, the pilots most likely to recognize that such a change is necessary - regional pilots and junior pilots at the majors - have the numbers necessary to stage a takeover of ALPA. I suggest a grassroots effort to elect a slate of candidates whose primary agenda is the establishment of an industry-wide Guild.
Who's In?
The problem with ALPA, it's occurred to me, is that it's not really a national union, it's simply an umbrella organization that provides services to individual unions, ie the various airlines' MECs. As such, there's not much more coordination between ALPA carriers than there is between, say, SWAPA and APA. This was fine when pattern bargaining allowed each airline's pilots to build on others success without close coordination, but that strategy has been utterly turned on its ear with the breakdown of scope. Now the only "pattern bargaining" that seems to happen is pilots undercutting each other to secure their flying from being bid on by another company, with no apparent referee looking out for what's best for the profession. This structural flaw in ALPA has been compounded by an utter lack of leadership and vision at the national officer level.
What we need is for all the MECs in ALPA, as well as the independent unions outside ALPA, to work much more closely under an umbrella organization. I'm proposing a Guild covering every airline pilot in the United States. Here's how it would work:
The Guild would set pay rates for all Part 121 flying at US airlines. The pay rate would be a constant formula applying to all aircraft types. The formula would consist of base pay plus a commission for every seat on the airplane. In 2008 dollars, I suggest a base rate of $40,000/yr for CAs and $24,000/yr for FOs, with a commission of $1 per seat per hour for CAs and $.60/seat/hr for FOs. This rate would have an annual inflation adjustment indexed to the Federal Consumer Price Index.
These rates would apply to all pilots regardless of longevity. Longevity pay has actually come to work against us; having an experienced pilot group has become a major negative to companies and has driven both the outsourcing of flying to regionals and the startup of new low cost carriers. From an economic standpoint, a 2nd year pilot generates revenue as efficiently as a 12 year pilot and should be compensated accordingly. Eliminating low pay for the most junior pilots would make it much less painless to switch airlines in case of economic difficulty or labor problems.
The Guild would set baselines for work rules and benefits. Individual unions could negotiate contracts with work rules and benefits that differ from the baselines, but the economic sum of the differences must equal zero. The idea is that all airlines will have identical crew costs on aircraft of the same size. This will force the airlines to succeed on the strength of their management rather than their ability to whipsaw labor.
The Guild would have a governing board composed of one representative from each member airline. Each member union's bylaws would give the board veto power over Tentative Agreements to ensure that all contracts meet Guild standards. Contracts could have a much greater length than today's contracts; 10-15 year contracts could be achieved. All contracts would be negotiated to become amendable at the same time, so that if the board decides the standards need changing it can be implemented at all carriers simultaneously.
Pilots could join the Guild as soon as they earn their Commercial certificate, but would not be required to pay dues until at a FAR121 carrier. When they join, pilots would agree to never fly for less than Guild rates. Guild membership would be a mandatory prerequisite for employment at any Guild airline, by contract. Pilots at non-union carriers could retain Guild membership so long as their airline meets Guild standards for pay, work rules, and benefits. Flying at a Part 121 airline for less than Guild rates would result in permanent revocation of membership (and therefore ineligibility for hire at any Guild airline).
The proposed Guild rates reflect a major increase over today's payrates and would require nearly simultaneous implementation over the industry to make them stick. Although crew costs would increase significantly over today, it'd be palatable to management since none of their competitors would have an advantage over them in this area. The actual cost increase per ticket is not appreciable enough to cut demand (I calculate a cost increase of $2.20 per passenger for a LAX-MSP segment in a 757 on Northwest, for example). Additionally, management would gain total predictability in labor costs, making long-range planning much easier. Labor costs would not increase with the "graying" of the airline. There would be much less labor strife and very infrequent negotiations. All this would make a Guild arrangement something management could live with, provided it went into effect across the industry simultaneously and remained universal or very nearly so.
Of course sooner or later a management team would try to "cheat" by using the bankruptcy process, lockout, or alter ego to get a leg up on all their competitors. The Guild would not attempt to strike in these cases; instead, every Guild pilot will be expected to resign rather than fly for less than Guild rates. The goal of Mass Resignations would be the permanent destruction of the airline to set an example for other management teams against attempting to circumvent the Guild. All pilots who lost their jobs in a Mass Resignation would be paid a livable stipend by the Guild and given contract-mandated preferential hiring at all Guild airlines.
The uniformity of pay scales, the lack of longevity pay, and the way that base pay would give larger airframes a cheaper CASM will all combine to give management much less reason to outsource. Guild policy would be to allow management to outsource up to 20% of their total ASMs, with no limit on aircraft size, to other Guild airlines only. Under this policy it is expected that most flying would eventually be brought in-house.
One might consider all this to be fairly utopian, but it's really not; while a Guild system is new to aviation, it's been used successfully in a number of other professions. Guilds are common to electricians, plumbers, and Amsterdam's prostitutes - all of whom make more money than many airline pilots.
This would take a lot of work. Even moreso, it would take a lot of leadership from ALPA national in conjunction with the individual MECs and independent unions. I don't think the current leadership is capable of embracing such a change. However, the pilots most likely to recognize that such a change is necessary - regional pilots and junior pilots at the majors - have the numbers necessary to stage a takeover of ALPA. I suggest a grassroots effort to elect a slate of candidates whose primary agenda is the establishment of an industry-wide Guild.
Who's In?
These exact observations, and similar positions have been discussed at length in the Union Forum on this BBS.
In general, it is an excellent idea... and I posted similar things in the past, as did several others. The one problem with yours is the ending.
If we were to organize a takover of ALPA leadership positions, why would we need to form a separate Guild?
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