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Old 06-30-2008, 05:08 PM   #21  
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Sorry, refresh my memory. Which airlines had pay rates FORCED on them by a judge while in BK? Did Wedoff determine what EVERY pilot left on property would make make at UAL?

I remember them (the pilot group) agreeing to multiple concessions.

I also remember the CAL pilot group agreeing to a concessionary CBA and NOT being in BK.

I believe the only group that had pay "forced" on them was AS. And that was by an arbitrator.
By being forced by a BK judge I mean not one ruling made by a BK judge went in favor of the employees. So when management dropped the contract with the pay rates in it and said sign here or we go to the judge. They had no real choice. Forced.
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Old 06-30-2008, 05:18 PM   #22  
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By being forced by a BK judge I mean not one ruling made by a BK judge went in favor of the employees. So when management dropped the contract with the pay rates in it and said sign here or we go to the judge. They had no real choice. Forced.
IM

True, but that doesn't change the FACT that the judge didn't "force" the rates on them. It was what the MEC decided to take it down to, not the judge.

When you say "management dropped the contract with the rates", what do you mean? The company doesn't set the rates. It's a negotiated medium agreed on by the MEC and the company, even during a concession. If the company set the rates, they would be lower than what the groups agreed to.

I get the impression you haven't been through this process.
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Old 06-30-2008, 05:39 PM   #23  
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True, but that doesn't change the FACT that the judge didn't "force" the rates on them. It was what the MEC decided to take it down to, not the judge.

When you say "management dropped the contract with the rates", what do you mean? The company doesn't set the rates. It's a negotiated medium agreed on by the MEC and the company, even during a concession. If the company set the rates, they would be lower than what the groups agreed to.

I get the impression you haven't been through this process.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

The MEC had no choice. It was take it or leave it or go to the judge. Look at what happen to the NWA f/a's when they said no and went to the judge.

"The company doesn't set the rates. It's a negotiated medium agreed on by the MEC and the company, even during a concession" Not as much as you think when you are in BK.
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Old 06-30-2008, 05:41 PM   #24  
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I read the whole thing today. It is easy, United just needs to fix the computer glitch. Simple as that.
This is what I received about it:

"The Jumpseat Committee earlier this week notified you that there have been some additional changes to our UAX partnersí jumpseat priorities. In a previous notice, we had changed the jumpseat priority of MESA and Colgan from a K to L designation, and that is still current. Additionally, we have made a modification to the current K category and redesignated it K1 and K2.
K1 was created to recognize those UAX carriers that place the United pilots immediately after their company's pilots and above other UAX carriers pilots. The current UAX carriers that are placed in this K1 are TransStates Airlines and Go Jets Airlines. The K2 designation is for those UAX carriers that place United and other UAX carriers on a first come first serve basis right after their carrier's pilots. The current UAX carriers that are placed in the K2 designation are Skywest, Chautauqua, and Shuttle America. As always, the priority in each one of these categories (K1,K2,L) is based on time of check in with the agent, and is located on the OMC travel authority ticket in the upper left corner, near the processing agent's information"

So it sounds like the agents aren't doing something proper?
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:07 PM   #25  
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If only mainline guys would fly for mainline wages. Egg or chicken?
Education time....there is not 1 legacy or regional airline that went through BK without having their wages lowered. Had the airline not been put into BK, the wages would not have went to the level they are at....think before you type.

Last edited by contrail67; 06-30-2008 at 06:10 PM. Reason: none
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:13 PM   #26  
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True, but that doesn't change the FACT that the judge didn't "force" the rates on them. It was what the MEC decided to take it down to, not the judge.
This is my first post here, but I got the link from the UAL MEC forum. This issue has me jazzed.

What is your problem? You seem to take some personal offense that United guys are ****ed off at this whole jumpseat deal, and you are trying to prove you understand the United MEC history better than anyone else. Why do you have such a bone to pick with United guys? Still frustrated that Independence didn't work out? Still frustrated that your pilot group voted for a failed business plan, and now you take some special sadism in pointing out other's mistakes?

UEX guys may have a valid grievance with the jumpseat issue if their pilots are being unfairly displaced by a United pilot, but absolute denial of the jumpseat to United guys will only cause greater problems. Almost every flight I have to Europe there's some UEX guy wanting a ride, and I'm happy to offer him a ride out of professional courtesy. But passes to Europe these days are hundreds of dollars, and if this jumpseat BS turns out to be true, no doubt the UEX guy's European vacation will have to be cut short because his first class pass to London will cost him $800 round trip.

If this goes through, I will PERMANENTLY deny every UEX pilot MY jumpseat on every flight. Jumpseating is a professional courtesy, not a political tool. And politics goes both ways.
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:32 PM   #27  
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Or you could do the right thing and ask your MEC to effect the change being requested. Or maybe you really believe that a UAL pilot should bump an express guy on his own flight. dont forget that riding in coach is free on ual. sucks being in coach, but if money is an issue and you choose to deny guys because they are standing up and fighting for an issue then so be it.
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:37 PM   #28  
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Originally Posted by dojetdriver View Post
Sorry, refresh my memory. Which airlines had pay rates FORCED on them by a judge while in BK? Did Wedoff determine what EVERY pilot left on property would make make at UAL?

I remember them (the pilot group) agreeing to multiple concessions.

I also remember the CAL/AA pilot groups agreeing to a concessionary CBA and NOT being in BK.

I believe the only group that had pay "forced" on them was AS. And that was by an arbitrator.
OK, so walking back to the hotel some night, some clown points a gun at you. You say "Don't shoot me, here's my wallet. Just take it."

Was this a robbery or a negotiated deal?

My $.02 - I say the judge doesn't need to actually pull the trigger to call it "forced"
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:51 PM   #29  
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OK, so walking back to the hotel some night, some clown points a gun at you. You say "Don't shoot me, here's my wallet. Just take it."

Was this a robbery or a negotiated deal?

My $.02 - I say the judge doesn't need to actually pull the trigger to call it "forced"
I agree.
Thanks Boomer.
IM
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:51 PM   #30  
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OK, so walking back to the hotel some night, some clown points a gun at you. You say "Don't shoot me, here's my wallet. Just take it."

Was this a robbery or a negotiated deal?

My $.02 - I say the judge doesn't need to actually pull the trigger to call it "forced"
Amen. UAL (and US Air, and Delta for that matter) guys had two choices, take the hit or shut down the airline, forever.
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