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Old 07-01-2008, 06:43 AM
  #51  
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My suggestion- the UAX Captains demand the list of those who to ride from the gate agents for each and every flight. The captains then use their authority to tell the agents who rides on their airplane in the order of the jumpseat agreements. Then the captains spend a couple of minutes either in flight or delaying the flights further to write their Captains reports (or whatever they are called at their individual airline) for why the flight was late- if the computer is broken, manual checks must be made and they take more time, delay more flights, cost more money, and get things fixed once management realizes the new problem. Full denial just seems a bit too lose/ lose to me. Good luck getting this thing sorted out.
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Old 07-01-2008, 08:17 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
OK, so walking back to the hotel some night, some clown points a gun at you. You say "Don't shoot me, here's my wallet. Just take it."

Was this a robbery or a negotiated deal?

My $.02 - I say the judge doesn't need to actually pull the trigger to call it "forced"
Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
I agree.
Thanks Boomer.
IM
Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
And I said the regionals flying for very low pay was also part of the problem.
Somebody said mainline pay wasn't much higher.
I agreed and said our contracts were forced on us in BK.
Unlike the regional contracts that where negotiated, voted on and accepted by the pilots with very low pay rates flying big jets.
Big difference between the two.
Comair, Mesaba, AWAC, ACA, and who knows who else, all had pilot contracts thrown out in BK.

Comair had their 70-seat rates cut 12% (CA) -20% (FO) and after this cut Delta "awarded" them 900s at the judge-imposed 70-seat rate. The new 70/90 seat rate is well below the old 50-seat rate.
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Old 07-01-2008, 12:29 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Blueskies21 View Post
...Obviously this hurts everybody but I just don't get the Mainline against Regional. Everybodys pay sucks. Where did mainline guys get their start? Regionals (used to be called commuters) and at that time they were all getting "stage pay" now most of them have block or better or a rig of some sort. Everybody has to start somewhere, look back twenty years and give yourself a break.
Well, unfortunately it sounds like there are pilots out there who only care about themselves. We already knew that. Hopefully this "glitch" , or whatever it is, gets fixed before this gets REALLLLLL ugly.
On a side note about the above quote...
I am "new" to the "Legacy, major..."whatever, so don't tell me I gave up scope, cause I was still working my way up.
But "back in the day", the "commuters" were TURBOPROPS that only could get into places where the "mainline jet" couldn't (EAS type routes). So they fed the mainline. TODAY, they (regional, commuters, Express Flights...) are taking over "mainline" flying with jets, for turboprop pay!!! Case in point, what used to be an A320 or 737 on DTW-DEN is now a Replacement Jet (RJ). And if the frequencies of these flights were reduced, there would be less congestion, use bigger planes. So we could charge more, and the passengers wouldn't complain (too much?) because they will be closer to on time, instead of ground stopped due to congestion.
OK, the soapbox is away.
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:51 PM
  #54  
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Actually commuters generally flew into small stations where mainline didnt want to fly or couldnt justify flying "heavy iron" into.

that said... one of the main reasons for the rise of the RJ has been frequency.... 20 years ago.... most city pairs ( other than really high traffic routes ) had three options a day... morning... afternoon and MAYBE evening.... the public wanted ( read demanded ) more frequency so that perhaps a two leg day of flying wouldnt take all day.... the airlines answered with increased frequency of the RJ's.... sometimes replacing but in many cases supplanting in between mainline flights.....

And if you hadnt noticed SBD.... I would hardly call flying ORD-MIA a commuter flight..... or any number of other city pairs....

We as pilots can sit around a throw a fit that we dont like what the airlines have become but frankly it has been happening for many many years. the face of this business will change dramatically over the next 5-10 years...... The mainlines are interested in INTL and high demand domestic... the rest of it is going to be contracted out....

Makes NO difference to me will be interesting to watch however..... my next trip is my last... on to the world of corporate aviation.... good luck all.
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Old 07-01-2008, 02:58 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by HercDriver130 View Post
Actually commuters generally flew into small stations where mainline didnt want to fly or couldnt justify flying "heavy iron" into.

that said... one of the main reasons for the rise of the RJ has been frequency.... 20 years ago.... most city pairs ( other than really high traffic routes ) had three options a day... morning... afternoon and MAYBE evening.... the public wanted ( read demanded ) more frequency so that perhaps a two leg day of flying wouldnt take all day.... the airlines answered with increased frequency of the RJ's.... sometimes replacing but in many cases supplanting in between mainline flights.....

And if you hadnt noticed SBD.... I would hardly call flying ORD-MIA a commuter flight..... or any number of other city pairs....

We as pilots can sit around a throw a fit that we dont like what the airlines have become but frankly it has been happening for many many years. the face of this business will change dramatically over the next 5-10 years...... The mainlines are interested in INTL and high demand domestic... the rest of it is going to be contracted out....

Makes NO difference to me will be interesting to watch however..... my next trip is my last... on to the world of corporate aviation.... good luck all.
Ummmmmm...maybe I wrote it wrong, but that's what I thought I was saying????
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Old 07-01-2008, 06:04 PM
  #56  
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I am a SKW Captain and I am against going this far on this issue. Each Captain can control the priority in his or her own JS. It is more of a hassle but I would rather see us work on this a little longer before we start making threats that we don't really want to back up.

The other thing I want to say is that all this back and forth between mainline and regional pilots is exactly what mgmt wants. The reason we are all facing pay cuts and furloughs is because they are not doing their job, which is to make the company profitable. If mainlines were making money then mainline pilots would not be taking cuts to protect their jobs. If mainlines were making money then regionals that do a good job and provide it at a reasonable cost would not have to be constantly looking over their shoulder for someone to come in and take their flying at a cheaper rate while doing a worse job. We need to stick together and blame the mgmt that runs the mainlines into the ground while taking giant payouts for their crappy performance.
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Old 07-01-2008, 08:18 PM
  #57  
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I offer this as the new UAX jumpseat coalition logo.
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Old 07-01-2008, 09:28 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by WatchThis! View Post

I offer this as the new UAX jumpseat coalition logo.

Bwa ha ha ha! Awesome...
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:40 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
Comair, Mesaba, AWAC, ACA, and who knows who else, all had pilot contracts thrown out in BK.

Comair had their 70-seat rates cut 12% (CA) -20% (FO) and after this cut Delta "awarded" them 900s at the judge-imposed 70-seat rate. The new 70/90 seat rate is well below the old 50-seat rate.
Not entirely true. ACA's pilot contract was NEVER thrown out in BK. I don't believe AWAC went into Ch.11. UAL exercised being in BK to manipulate the contracts they had with their express carriers at that time and put them all up for rebid.

Both those pilot groups (AWAC/ACA) took concessions in order to get their costs down to compete with MESA and SkyWest.
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:59 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by dojetdriver View Post
Well, congratulations on your first point. But can you show me where I'm "pi$$ed off" as you put in this thread as it relates to the JS issue? I've talked about pay rates and how they were negotiated down, but NOTHING about the JS issue. What is YOUR problem? Maybe you are mad because of the weakness your MEC showed in the past. Maybe you are also mad because a regional had the sack to tell your management where to go when YOUR OWN MEC didn't.

Funny, my dad spent 30+ years at UAL. Maybe it's the way you are reading it.

I'm just trying to understand what is your problem with the United pilots. But reading the extent of your anger throughout your other posts, I'll just assume that you are disturbed. And I didn't say you were ****ed off...perhaps you need to read closer. And yes, the MEC is weak, no question about that. That's why we're in this situation in the first place. But when your airline SURVIVES bankruptcy, there is a certain amount of give-and-take in negotiations. Not that you would know what that's like, as your airline FAILED in bankruptcy. And your MEC bent over while it was still making money under ACA and accepted RJ wages for A319s.

...And that's my point, if your (former) MEC weakly gave in, why are you so critical of the United pilots, when we're all just the same? I'm sorry daddy couldn't get you into United back when the gettin' was good, but timing is everything. Get over it. United pilots are not your problem.
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