...Except that we employ thermonuclear weapons on the aircraft we fly in the military. That requires a little more thorough check than the one we go through to get a job at an airline...and it needs to be updated every so often as well. It is, in fact, quite different with regard to the "job" being done.

B2P

I Wish It Wasn't Like This
 

Gabriel,

I hate to say it but methinks you are out of luck. I certainly wish that you could have some access to our flightdecks, but it isn't going to happen. I fear that ZED style fares are all that might be available to you. Good luck. I wish we had more authority over our jumpseats as I wish you guys had similar.

YF

Oh YF, Thank you for the answer.

I can see it. Unfortunetally nowadays we're having more rigid rules.

What type of aircraft do you fly? Where are you based in?

I'm flying B737-300 at Gol. I got my ICAO English level 4 (the minimum for intl flughts) but I'd like to improve my English skills.

Att. Gabriel.

Skype Me
 

To answer you, Skype me yankeefly69 ;-)

I am an RJ flight instructor and ex RJ Captain at the most loved US regional...MESA

;-)

YF

It doesn't matter if the check is more thorough. Like you said, it needs to be updated and pilots with previous jobs that involved high security clearances are no different and definitely not infallible.

Any new-hire at an airline should go through the background checks....no matter how thorough their past checks. Like I said, when it comes to brass tacks, it is no different from the military.

The end result is not, but the method is...as you just admitted. That was my only point...like I said. I simply disagreed with your assertion that the checks are no different in the military...you have no idea what a military background check involves. I have been through both processes. We are held to a higher standard during military background checks...necessarily so when dealing with heavily-armed aircraft. This isn't a mil vs. civ contest...it's just reality. We may not be infallible, but if we screw up with nukes the "brass tacks" results are off the scale in disaster potential.

B2P

So when is this crewpass deal going to go system wide again?

On the second photo ID thing, show them your airport SIDA badge. Don't let any TSA agent tell you it is not government issued--unless the airport you're based at is not owned/operated by that city.

Quite true. If you Airport/ Company badge has a SIDA included in it, is also considered a government issued ID. Like ours are.

You missed my point. I do know what is involved with higher security clearances and background checks and I never meant that they're the same as an airline's background check. What I said;

Perhaps I should have worded that last sentence better; It is no different for new-hires from the military, nor should it be.

And no, I'm not trying to turn this into a military vs. civilian contest and the "brass tacks" of this thread has nothing to do with your scenario about screwing up with nukes.

My post was in reply to a post that implied an airline background check is redundant because of a security clearance that was held in the past. My point is that the bottom line;
No matter what level of background checks one has been through in the past, due to reasons I stated earlier about no one being infallible, ALL airline new-hires should undergo the same background checks.

Nope, you missed my point. I don't care about the rest of your post...I only took issue with one part of it. If your intent was not to lump all background checks into the same pot, you're forgiven for the clumsy use of semantics.

B2P

You're forgiven for your clumsy comprehension of what was clearly stated in the first post.

Likewise for your grade-school repartee. Relax kid...just eat your chicken and work your panel. The grown-ups will continue this conversation. ;)

B2P

Ok Mr. Grown Up.:rolleyes: You're the victor. Feel better now?

If you're looking for logic in anything run by our government, give up. As it was explained to me by a terrific, now retired FAA inspector, "Just remember this is a political solution to a technical problem!"

So does anybody know when crewpass will be in effect at all airports?

I asked a TSA supervisor in my home town and he mentioned a memo he received about the 'trial' being extended to a few more airports in the Spring of '09... It sounds like it might take a while. :(

He said many local branches are fighting this idea because they say it'll cost them extra money and resources (extra TSA person to deal with pilots only). He thinks it's probably more about the basic distrust and dislike between many TSA agents and the pilots which he claims is very real, he said he’s had to ‘counsel’ many of his agents about keeping their feelings about us to themselves; I know this supervisor personally and I'm sure he knows what he's talking about (he’s a former pilot who took an early retirement).

It is OUTstanding! Used it at BWI...

you mean Thousands Standing Around don't have the manpower to put a single person at the exit gate to check badges?

oh, wait, they already put someone there. of course, that person has to be smart enough to work a PC....

Where's the bashing your head on a wall smiley.

Don't know if anyone else had heard this but yesterday in BWI the woman there said it won't be approved since the man power issue which is a joke.

It wouldn't be approved there, or wouldn't be approved period?

From what she was saying it wouldn't be approved period.

So what exactly is the TSA's beef with pilots? Can you tell us more about what your friend has heard from them? Do they seriously think we're the enemy?

I flew with a Captain way back who flew the 737 in the Air Force transporting live nuclear weapons with a .45 on his hip. Now with 20 years at the airlines (perfectly clean record) he has to remove his shoes (previous rules) at security? They trust a 22 year old former Starbucks coffee slinger over him? They seriously don't know who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.

S.B.

I think you just answered your own question. Do you think the TSA agents know your captain's background? All they see is another pilot who wants to get "in front of the line" and is disrespecting the passengers - that's how they see us. My buddy said he's had to send some of his agents home to 'cool off' because they're so ****ed off at some 'pilot pukes' as they called us.

I'm not sure when and why it started but the mistrust is mutual, I've heard it from numerous pilots too. One got really mad (and to certain extent I tend to agree with him) a few years back when the LAS TSA agents got a $500 bonus from their supervisor for catching a pilot under influence who's trying to 'go to work.' I'm not defending the drunken pilot, I'm glad he didn't get a chance to risk his passengers' lives. I just don't think rewarding TSA agents for something that's not even in their job description is a good idea.

Either way, most of them simply 'tolerate us' and that's about it. I don't think there will ever be any love between our groups. They think we're spoiled brats who don't like to wait in line like everyone else. Many of the pilots (including me) doubt the TSA really makes it safer. Until we learn from the Israelis and make profiling a reality personally I don't see the purpose of having TSA around. My friend says they're trying but he thinks the PC rules are too confusing for most of his agents...

So the latest update I received about Crewpass came from a company memo today. Apparently they are adding a monthly cost, which of course won't be covered by the company. The memo says, "we are not sure of the exact cost, but it shouldn't be any more than the cost of using FLICA," yet another work related expense the company refuses to pay for. When can we get a break. But at least they said they are trying to work out a free trial for us to see if it's something we would like to use. Give me a break

I find it ridiculous that the TSA has an issue with us...for the sole reason we have to go through security to get to work.

Why the hell should a crew that has a 45 minute duty-in time prior to departure have to wait in a 1.5 hour line at security?

We're going to work...to be productive...so those passengers in line NOW...can actually get somewhere.

From the top down the TSA needs to change this antagonistic attitude that is oozing from the fronline individuals.

This is simple.

Somebody needs to remind these TSA pukes that their jobs at the airport would not exist if it wasn't for us pilots. End of story.

ID

Enough of these 45 minute late departures waiting in line and maybe, just maybe that will get management to re-think things and put the pressure on to get CrewPass figured out.

Dont forget to remind the FAA guy doing your line check the same thing.