Aye Pee Aye
 

From the APA C&R Board

Posted by: LAX/FO/777/INT

The last time I was at the schoolhouse I saw all these kids running around, many in gang clothes: baggy pants with their underwear showing, untied shoe laces and baseball caps turned sideways to make them look like retards. I figured that it was "take your kid to work week". Turned out they were Eagle new hires (some were even highly experienced with "over 200 hours"). They're just dumb kids. Don't pay any attention to them.

Posted by: LAX/CA/777/INT

You're right xxx, but there seems to be a never-ending supply of them. I figured out the other day that the guy who cleans our golf clubs at the end of a round makes about the same as an Eagle Captain. But they still line up to to be 'pilots'.



Its amazing how you guys can make yourself look so clueless and out of touch.

a buck twenty to clean clubs? wow.

ah nevermind.

And the point of this thread is...?

Ahhh, the APA rendering judgment...Now that I like....

Those quotes were after someone posted what was being said on the EagleLounge message board.

The Eagle pilot comments were posted first before the above comments and remarked that after AA goes on strike that Eagle would take all of AA's flying and then give TWA pilots DOH just to get even with APA.

The things people write on the internet, Wow!

Yikes, I only hit post quick reply once! Sorry, my bad.

I don't condone what any of those pilots wrote.

I just chose to reply here because those comments were taken out of context or the whole story was not told.

I think Willy is trying to start somethin'

its still pathetic for "professionals" to act like that. regardless of what was said earlier, two wrongs dont make a right!. that simple rule comes back to kick you in the @ss huh?

What never ceases to amaze me is how AMR continues to keep the APA and the Eagle ALPA guys fighting against eachother.

If the two unions ever decided to work together, AMR would be screwed royal.

For instance, everybody knows the APA is in no mood to give ANY scope exceptions to AMR for more commuter flying. This will be a huge bargaining chip for the APA this time around since AMR really wants it alot more than they are letting on.

AMR has proposed to allow subcontracting commuter flying go to aircraft up to 89,000 pounds, and 86 seat capacity in a 76 seat configuration. In other words the E170/175 series with a first class section.

If and when APA decides to trade that for something they really want, they could easily modify the AMR language in such a way as to only allow Eagle to get the larger planes. This would effectively eliminate the subcontracting to the Republics, Chataquas, Freedoms, Trans-States... and eventually put APA and Eagle ALPA as the only choice AMR has. As it is right now, they can just contract out to anybody for the cheapest feed... and whipsaw one against the other over and over.

I for one, hope that APA decides to NOT give in on scope; but if they do, to do it wisely in a way that will benefit them in the long run.... say around 2013.

The way USAir does it is to have the 170/175 as a commuter, and the 190/195 as a mainline aircraft. That seems to work well for them, and would probably work well at AMR.

The best thing would be for the two unions to start working together more. Granted, there will always be many issues they can't agree on, but sticking it to AMR is most definately a shared goal.

Mason,

Thoughtful post. I too wish APA and Eagle ALPA could work together.
Being a former regional pilot, I wish AMR could utilize and deploy Eagle
better.
Also, wishing AMR could utilize and deploy AA better.

You are totally correct "the best thing would be for the two unions to start working together more."

The big topic right now is the 7,300 floor.
I have no answers and not a clue as to whats going to happen on Sept. 1st over that.
They'll have 90 days form then to figure it out.

Best wishes to all.
7576

Hi 7576,

As much as I don't want to see the 7300 floor hit through furloughs, hitting it through attrition and retirements does seem a real possibility. It will be very interesting when it happens.

Watching AMR execs double talk, and I fully expect them to violate this section when it happens and force a grievance all the way through arbitration. I expect them to pull all the doubletalk they have pulled with Eagle ALPA over the years. I fully expect them to reverse the position they have had with us, in order to fight with you. They have repeatedly slammed Eagle as a regional/commuter, while the Feds and DOT have listed Eagle as a National-Major (depends which baseline you use, revenue or passenger loads) by continuing to call Eagle regional/commuter they get to use indistry standard from other regional carriers that operate the same equipment, but operate in only one geographic area.

When the 7300 floor is hit, watcvh how fast they turn around and call Eagle a national carrier, and not a commuter carrier. As it was explained to me the APA contract deals with the generic... IE - commuter carriers can, or can not do xxxx...

AMR will do what is best for the executives at AMR, not for the employees or shareholders.

If the best interests of making the company prosper, providing a return on investment to shareholders, providing a profitable place of employment with a decent retirement were a consideration, then they would have consolidated Eagle into AA long ago and rid themselves of the duplication of running two large 121 airlines side by side. The duplication runs from the executive level, through the mid-management level, into the maintenance departments, the dispatch and SOC/MOC offices right down to duplicate chief pilot and in-flight offices.... just a monumental example of waste at mamouth proportions. I'm sure I am preaching to the chior on this, but I am also sure there are many on this BBS that are not familiar with the level of duplication AMR choses to operate under intentionally.

Anyway, from what I have been reading, that 7300 floor will probably be hit in the not too distant future. What you guys at the APA may not be up to date on is some the subcontracting crap they have been trying to pull lately at Eagle. They transfered the MIA flying from Eagle to TSA. After alot of "negotiating" AMR decided that before they start furloughing pilots at Eagle, they should get the 10 planes they leased to TSA back. So, starting in Jan 2009 the 10 EMB-145's start comming back to Eagle at the rate of 2 per month. So, by May 09, all ten planes will be back on property.

The latest scope exception request they sent you guys for 89,000 pound, 86 seat in 76 seat configuration is ready made to be subcontraced out to Republic Airlines. They parked a bunch of their 170's in that exact configuration recently. The CEO at Republic let slip that they had been in discussion with AMR, and Eagle management has been hounding us to become more streamlines and productive like.... who else..... you guessed it; Republic.

This is why I said, if and when the time does come that APA decides to grant a scope exception in exchange for significant gains in other areas, they change the companies wording from allowing commuter carriers to operate xxxxx.... to allowing Eagle to operate xxxx. As the smaller RJ's all but vanish with $130+ oil, eventually it will just be APA & Eagle ALPA doing all the flying at AMR. Much easier to get two pilto groups to work together, than the four AMR currently uses, soon to be five. AMR is setting us all up for a huge whipsaw in 2013 when all their feed contracts expire. Now is the time to position ourselves to capitalize on the eventuallity instead of being beat up by it.

Highly unlikely. APA's position has always been "feed should be outsourced". A more likely wording is "allowing any commuter carrier, except Eagle, to operate xxxx". Its ashame because the potential power of AEALPA + APA is impressive. Oh well...

Their position is posted on their website, along with their (and AMR's) proposals. They have repeatedly stated that ALL flying for AMR should be done by pilots on their seniority list. They clarified that many months ago by saying that in the interests of the stockholders, the employees and even the company itself the two airlines (AA & AE) should be one. As long as feed is outsourced to multiple providers, APA & EGL ALPA will be unable to force the issue.

Daddy really likes that idea...maybe the TWA pilots pilots won't be the furlough fodder for the American Airlines pilots for the rest of their careers, er um...unemployed careers.

FF

AA had a plane kind of like that.
Remember the F-100?
Oh,yeah, they got rid of it!
Never knew how to use it properly anyway.