American Limited/Unlimited Jumpseat
 

Why is American the only major airline still not allowing unlimited jumpseats. My airline allows unlimited for all carriers including American, yet, we remain on a limited list. I thought we pilots are supposed to take care of one another!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

Limited=number of "limited" jumpseaters is based on the amount of jumpseats in the cockpit.
Unlimited=speaks for itself

You ever heard the phrase: "The horse is dead"?

Good luck with that one...

re
 

I just ran into this the other day in STL. The gate agent asked me if Delta was "unlimited" on American. After a yes, she said, "well, I better check"....whatever...so after she did what she had to do, she explained what the unlimited meant. I think limiting the jumpseat is because it costs the airline some small amount of taxes/fees/other BS surcharges paid to the airport. Similar to why AirTran was charging for the second off line J/S.

We AA pilots are plenty embarrassed and upset about the situation, unfortunately our management will not cooperate with what the rest of the industry is doing. If it was up to me, every airline would be unlimited. Now that we are in Section 6, I wouldn't be surprised if the company exchanges unlimited jumpseats for some kind of major concession...

In the meantime, I'll keep bringing this up to our union j/s chairman's attention.

Truly sorry about the situation.
73

Is the limited jumpseat rule also in effect on American Eagle?

This happened at STL? Did is happen at the ticket counter, if so they are AA employees. Did it happen at the gate? they are TSA employees.

Are you saying this policy is in effect for just your airline or is AA using this policy for all off-line folks? Interesting I've only used AA a couple of times for J/S and I've never had a problem. But it just so happens I was planning to use them today. But I may change my mind if I'm going to be stranded.

A nice solution would be if all Captains at all airlines, denied all jumpseaters for about two weeks; the system would get fixed real quick with airliners stuck all over the country. Most airlines have a commuter clause so this wouldn't cause too much pain.

Good idea.

AA just got a commuter clause in 2003. It is for line holders only. Not for reserves commuting to work.

I spoke with AA Cheif on duty last night on the phone about the j/s, i'd had another issue to discuss.

Things get changed real slow at AA. No OAL jumpseat until the 1990's at AA.

We are sending e-mails and phone calls.
7576

I commute on AA quite often and there's always several offline jumpseaters on the flight. I've never run into this "limited" jumpseat problem. The gate agents let us all on.

It depends on the particular airline. Some are unlimited, some aren't. Fedex on AA isn't, for one.

I always found it interesting that my company (ASA) served, at the time, 20 int'l destinations, but we could not jumpseat int'l on AA because we were not an int'l carrier. Unfortunatly I am one to hold a grudge when left at the gate in SXM, so I just refunded the $650 one way ticket on AA today and bought a $650 ticket on DL. I bet the bean counters didn't count on that.

They don't care.

Maybe OAL Captains will just start denying AA and Eagle pilots jumpseats at all. When AMR is at complete frustration with not being able to fly their schedules then maybe the counter intelligent individual who came up with that policy will catch enough heat coming downhill and go "unlimited" like everyone else.

So glad I left that place...

because your airline does not have an agrement with aa/ae for unlimited jumpseat. talk to your airline or union reps.


I have posted the jumpseat allowances at the following link to see what each airline has with aa/ae. updated july 2008

select the link and scroll down just a bit and to the left is the pdf icon and select. hope this helps. also if you want to down load it just go further to the bottom and select download.

buddies8's Stuff eSnips Folder

yeah for international jumpseat. maybe they should read better.

if your airline does not have an agreement with aa/ae for unlimited then may i suggest you contact your union rep and ask them to see what can be done.

Rotorhead,

AMR would not care. They would discipline all the pilots missing work and that includes calling in sick as they have begun to do already. Jumpseat wars are bull****. The AA/AE pilots need to fight for this one themselves along with all the other crap that has been heaped on them.

So glad I left BOTH of those places...

g

There are way too many L's on that list. Basically American is not holding up there side of the bargain. I imagine plenty of their pilots commute and enjoy the unlimited seats all other airline allocate to them. If their pilots truly cared, they could get it changed!!!!!

unfortunately, AE pilots do not control or have a say in the matter. It is directed by AA and APA. If APA wants unlimited seats on all airlines, all they have to do is get reciprocal unlimited on the other airline. AE is lucky not to get thrown of AA planes. AA wont give it unless what they give is equal to what they get. Thats is AA and APA can only push it, AE as I said is lucky we get our jumpseat priority before AA pilots, because at one time our guys were left behind while AA pilots took our jumpseat.

I was at AE from the AMR buyout (and loss of all OAL jumpseats) to the mid 90s and never remember this as being so.:confused:

g

whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up, wait a minute! check yo facts buddy. if it happened in STL and at the ticket counter, then you are correct, they are AA employees. but if it happened at the gate, well then it depends on which side of the C gates it happened. even numbers (C2, C4, etc) are AA employees, and odd numbers (C1, C3, etc) are TSA employees. dont go blaming TSA people right off the bat unless you know fo'shizzle. word :cool:

Then you forgot what happened during the F/A strike. Or was not there for it yet.

Stand corrected. My point was, maybe they did not know. But as the list that I placed here shows, some carriers are limited junpseat because there carrier wont give unlimited to AA/AE. If this is true then both sides have to talk to there union to change it.

That is a load of crap and you know it. I, and several of my coworkers, have pushed and pushed to get this restriction removed. I personally know our jumpseat chairman and work with him on these types of issues now that I am involved at the union leadership.

We are at the whim and mercy of management in regards to this issue. It is definitely NOT for lack of trying. Most if not all of our pilots would love to have unlimited for all airlines. You can bet that they would only give us unlimited j/s in exchange for a major work concession now that we are in Sec 6. In the meantime, all we can do is continue pushing for reciprocity.... but I don't see us accepting major concessions in exchange for it.

73

The APA Jumpseat Chair is well aware of AA's limited issue - when you represent the largest airline in the world and virtually every airline has better jumpseat rules than you, you're gonna' stand out from the crowd. I'm quite sure the vast majority of AA guys who commute are aware of the issue as well - it is not a good feeling to ask for a jumpseat every week and be told "sure, grab any seat you want, we take unlimited" and not be able to say, "thanks, we reciprocate".

With that being said, while AA sticks out like a sore thumb now, 10 years ago limited jumpseats were all the rage - all the majors had them, if they had jumpseats at all (Delta was late to this party, in particular). It took a lot of work by the pilot groups to get them. Most major pilots actually secured unlimited only when they ate HUGE concessions after Sept. 11th - "as long as you're taking our retirement, or income, and our QOL, we'd like to have unlimited jumpseats for off-line pilots" was essentially the way it went. APA Jumpseat Committee also was a leader in CASS coming to fruition - and it's no easy sell to stubborn management when your airline lost 2 aircraft in a series of flightdeck breaches recently, as it was for AA (and UA).

The only entity that's really told AA management "give us unlimited on ALL your flights, or go pound sand" is the folks at Southwest. They're the largest domestic airline, so they have a bigger stick than anyone else, and their management was swinging the stick with SWAPA, not just SWAPA.

Is it even reasonable to ask APA and the AA pilots to take concessions to get unlimited for off-line? Tough to say - they've lost a lot over the past decade, and it's not easy to get a group of pilots (AA, or anyone else) to take a concession they won't directly benefit from. Would you take concessions so AA could have unlimited @ your airline? Would you do it after taking a 50% pay cut and losing many of the benefits you've fought so hard for for decades? Would you do it if you don't commute and don't value jumpseat benefits? It's hard to sell concessions for off-line jumpseats to everyone with the pitch "well, everyone else reciprocates with us, so we should do it out of principle". I believe the AA Flight Attendants are not exactly being helpful on unlimited off-line pilot access to all AA flights either (please correct me if I'm in error here).

AA will eventually go unlimited on all flights for all pilots - but it will take time. A dialogue is good on the issue, but, rest assured, the biggest supporters of the change are likely the AA pilots who you see at your flightdeck door, asking for a ride to work or home. A jumpseat denial due to AA's management hang-ups will only hurt those who are the biggest cheerleaders for change to the jumpseat policy @ AA - the AA commuters themselves. Just keep asking if they're unlimited yet - it keeps the pressure on so that one day, that AA pilot will happily answer, "YES!"

SWA probably carries more than 50% of AA's commuters, so that's a reasonable request.

No, it isn't reasonable to ask AA/APA to take concessions to get unlimited for off-line. But, it should be contractual in Section 6 if necessary.

F/As can enjoy the same benefit that we do---all they have to do is go out and get their pilot's license and become employed by an airline.