Alaska Airlines to cut as many as 165 pilots
#21
Hire date would go back to June of 2006.
As far as the ETOPS training, for FO's it's only a two day class on procedures and additional raft training. The Captains are the only ones that need a line check. Unfortunately it probably wouldn't be that difficult to train up another group for ETOPS. The logistics should still apply as to a particular base of pilots being trained. Unless they wanted to train all of SEA, they would have to train a certain amount of folks, then have a base reduction and pay to move all the new ETOPS FO's to ANC. We'll see if it actually plays out that way.
Saretsky has said a lot of things that don't pan out. Just before the 165 number he was saying 50-70 at the ANC base roadshow. What "truth" do you want to believe?
As far as the ETOPS training, for FO's it's only a two day class on procedures and additional raft training. The Captains are the only ones that need a line check. Unfortunately it probably wouldn't be that difficult to train up another group for ETOPS. The logistics should still apply as to a particular base of pilots being trained. Unless they wanted to train all of SEA, they would have to train a certain amount of folks, then have a base reduction and pay to move all the new ETOPS FO's to ANC. We'll see if it actually plays out that way.
Saretsky has said a lot of things that don't pan out. Just before the 165 number he was saying 50-70 at the ANC base roadshow. What "truth" do you want to believe?
#22
I heard from someone at todays roadshow in LAX that Saretsky said "it could be closer to 200 furloughs...but thats squishy".
If he wants to see squishy maybe he should look in the mirror...oh wait...that's slippery!
If he wants to see squishy maybe he should look in the mirror...oh wait...that's slippery!
#23
What is the full training req for the ETOPS cert at alaska? I have read the 2 day training thing or whatever, but why is the flight portion on there is that an FAA requirement for all carriers? Just wondering I have never done it.
Also why wouldn't they just run a recurrent type class to qualify everyone on the ground part of it. Seems like a pain in butt to deal with only certain crews being able to do it. Then just do the flight portion as needed when someone is scheduled to fly that kind of a trip.
I know it sux to be on the short end of the furlough stick. (personal experience) I wish all of you the best of luck. Hopefully those that are faced with it dont have to go through it for too long.
Also why wouldn't they just run a recurrent type class to qualify everyone on the ground part of it. Seems like a pain in butt to deal with only certain crews being able to do it. Then just do the flight portion as needed when someone is scheduled to fly that kind of a trip.
I know it sux to be on the short end of the furlough stick. (personal experience) I wish all of you the best of luck. Hopefully those that are faced with it dont have to go through it for too long.
#24
What is the full training req for the ETOPS cert at alaska? I have read the 2 day training thing or whatever, but why is the flight portion on there is that an FAA requirement for all carriers? Just wondering I have never done it.
Also why wouldn't they just run a recurrent type class to qualify everyone on the ground part of it. Seems like a pain in butt to deal with only certain crews being able to do it. Then just do the flight portion as needed when someone is scheduled to fly that kind of a trip.
Also why wouldn't they just run a recurrent type class to qualify everyone on the ground part of it. Seems like a pain in butt to deal with only certain crews being able to do it. Then just do the flight portion as needed when someone is scheduled to fly that kind of a trip.
All they have to do to train new crews that are displaced from LAX/SEA to ANC is one mass 2-day class for FO's and CA's, then schedule a check airman with a CA for their first crossing. It is really no big deal and will not effect the training program that much.
#25
And people wonder why there is no unity between pilot groups. Kinda makes me halfway hope oil goes to $200.00 a barrel, just to put pressure on your "set in stone, company promise" not to furlough. Although, if JBU ever did furlough, I'm guessing you won't be posting here to have the above comment thrown back at you.
#26
This negotiation process is obviously way over your head WB. Management is deep into the union busting playbook and are playing hardball. Why wouldn't they? Afterall, there are millions of dollars at stake. They don't want to give an inch until it is absolutely necessary and are doing what they can to control the negotiation process and the pilot group.
Wait a second...I'm trying to explain this to someone who can barely write at the fifth grade level. Oops.
#27
#28
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,480
I suspect the 165 number has more to do with contract negotiations/mediation than to do with 5% reductions.
There has been no talk of furloughing out of seniority. The contract does not allow for it. They know all the ramifications of furloughing with the ETPOS guys being most of the furloughs. It is a bluff, pure and simple. There could be a few just to prove that they are willing to do it, but there is no way they would furlough 11% of thier pilots.
If you guys notice in all the mention of furloughs they always say "up to 165". They have no clue how many they are going to send letters to since they have not even put out the incentive package for the over 60 guys or the 12 and 24 month leave offer. They have to wait and see how many guys take the offers and then decide how many people to furlough to prove their point.
Isn't ETOPS training a two day class and then a check? The folks in the training dept said that would not be hard to spin up new ETOPS guys even with the MD guys clogging up the house. Saretsky said with the capacity cuts they would only really need 99 planes next year to fill the schedule.
He may be full of BS but I am just relaying what he said. Maybe folks that are a bit smarter on this can comment. He also said their game now is cash preservation and holding market share with minor expansions where they make sense.
That's the Company line. They've been preaching that since I got hired. Some of you young guys may not remember it, but in '98/'99 they were all hot on "2000 (pilots) by 2000". There have been various versions of that projection back to the '80s.
No comment.
#29
I am curious as to how many pilots at ALK are now and will be flying past the age of 60? (Or any anirline) It is NOT a junior pilots faults that a 60+ pilots managae thier retirement poorly, so in my opinion STOP dicking with us junior guys chance to build a retirement!
#30
[QUOTE=WaterBoarder;457351][quote=GolfKilo73;456987]Management is deep into the union busting playbook and are playing hardball. Why wouldn't they? Afterall, there are millions of dollars at stake. They don't want to give an inch until it is absolutely necessary and are doing what they can to control the negotiation process and the pilot group.
Your deep understanding of the negotiating process qualifies you for a management position. Keep paying those union dues.
I don't get your comment. GolfKilo hit the nail right on the head in his comments. Our union reps are keeping us well informed and we are unified. Is it not good that a pilot has a good grasp of the negotiating process??? I would hope so because so much rides on it. If our management was as free as Jetblues to do what they want then you would see no pension here, a 3% 401 match, the lowest pay scale in the industry, horrendous work rules and guys being fired for almost anything. They are terrible in regards to employee relations here. When you let a bean-counter run an organization everything and everyone becomes a cost unit and leadership is scarce.
If you work at Jetblue, then I would be a bit worried because you have little leverage on anything. Are you supporting the JBPA? If so, good on you! If not, then maybe you should look into a management position because you believe they actually have your best interests at heart! Doesn't jetblue retain Ford and Harrison? Are they part of the ATA? Are they not on the Airline Industrial Relations Conference? Makes you go hmmmmm...but hey, they have your interests at heart!
Your deep understanding of the negotiating process qualifies you for a management position. Keep paying those union dues.
If you work at Jetblue, then I would be a bit worried because you have little leverage on anything. Are you supporting the JBPA? If so, good on you! If not, then maybe you should look into a management position because you believe they actually have your best interests at heart! Doesn't jetblue retain Ford and Harrison? Are they part of the ATA? Are they not on the Airline Industrial Relations Conference? Makes you go hmmmmm...but hey, they have your interests at heart!
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