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Old 09-11-2008, 05:59 AM   #11  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob View Post
At Delta, we get our final numbers over the ACARS, but at the gate, and we still pushback on time. We even get updated numbers as the aircraft is being loaded. I can't imagine what takes the AA load planners and dispatchers so long to generate the numbers.

I don't know either. I've heard that we do not use the bag location scanners. But they should have our bag count as soon as the cargo doors are closed.
Then they walkie talkie the #'s to ops or crew chief, then they enter it in the computer, it goes to loads in Tulsa, Tulsa minimizes their online poker game briefly, looks at the load #'s, then restores their online poker game & plays 2-4 hands, then minimizes, then restores the loads page & takes a cell phone call from home, then enters SEND.

Meanwhile, ATC and all other airlines are taxiing around us.

But our management thinks it's a great system.

We are so 1961 technology.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:40 AM   #12  
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What ever happened to taxi pace being a "brisk walk"?

It's hard to walk 150-200 ft. in less than a couple seconds. Most folks walk @ 3-4 mph. I'd say a "brisk walk" is no more than 5 mph, @ best (every try to use a treadmill and not run @ 5 mph. It's tough). Think about a 10,000 ft runway - it should take you 22 minutes to taxi the length of it @ 5 mph.

I doubt that this AA pilot was anywhere near that speed. Isn't there aircraft data that could be pulled to show his speed? Not that it seems to matter in this case (I wonder what AA's side is). It's pathetic to see this level of micromanagement at any company, but to see it from the current largest airline in the world sets a very poor example for others.
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Old 09-11-2008, 07:09 AM   #13  
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I fly for AA. We have a taxi checklist that is short. Then a mechanical checklist which is relatively long compared to other airlines. One of the reasons we taxi slowly is we never know when we'll receive our load closeout over the acars printer. We cannot take-off until we have this. Sometimes we get it before pushback. Sometimes we have to wait in the penalty box for closeout numbers.
We never know. Lots of ATC controller ask, "Hey American do you have your numbers?"
For the whole time i've flown for American pilots have asked for SWA's closeout system of Laptop atog's and agent closeout sheet at main cabin door departure. The answer is always "our system is fine"
I don't think so, we waste tons of fuel waiting on numbers.
On taxi in, many times we do not know if our gate is avail. Most often it is occupied. This may account for most of our slow taxi on arrival.
The last few years some of us call ahead to see if our gate is available on arrival. But most of the time we never know. In fact we are not supposed to call our ramp control until AFTER crossing all active runways and then contacting ground control, then call ramp.

As far as the ex TWA pilots response above, it is interesting how people only remember the good things about their previous employer. They remember none of the bad stuff.
Funny, at CAL on the 756 we have NO taxi checklist whatsoever. Everything is done and set up prior to push, including the numbers. Granted, sometimes they might be a little late and a CA will push without them, but by the time we're disconnected from the tug, the printer has rolled out the info. It's usually uplinked through the FMC before the printer gets it, anyway.

Everything that would normally be done on a taxi check is done on the before start or before takeoff. The before takeoff is every short, though. Departure announcement, Flaps/TO Config Check, any changes to the TO brief (that was done at the gate) and turning on the xpndr.

CAL's idea is to keep the pilots looking outside and not distracted while taxiing around.

Works pretty well.
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Old 09-11-2008, 07:21 AM   #14  
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Originally Posted by Spicy McHaggis View Post
Funny, at CAL on the 756 we have NO taxi checklist whatsoever. Everything is done and set up prior to push, including the numbers. Granted, sometimes they might be a little late and a CA will push without them, but by the time we're disconnected from the tug, the printer has rolled out the info. It's usually uplinked through the FMC before the printer gets it, anyway.

Everything that would normally be done on a taxi check is done on the before start or before takeoff. The before takeoff is every short, though. Departure announcement, Flaps/TO Config Check, any changes to the TO brief (that was done at the gate) and turning on the xpndr.

CAL's idea is to keep the pilots looking outside and not distracted while taxiing around.

Works pretty well.
We would LOVE to have your checklist at CAL. AA's 757/767 taxi/before TO checklist:

Taxi:
Isolation switches
Packs
Cargo heat
Engine anti ice
APU
Flaps
Flight controls
EICAS display
EGPWS
Recall
---------------------------
Before T/O:
T/O Data and bugs
T/R panel
MCP/Radios
Stab trim
Flaps
Autobrakes
Anti ice
Map display
T/O PA
Packs
Lights

To top it off, most of this can't be done until we get our load closeout, which usually comes up during taxi.

Now you can see why we have to taxi out so slow. On taxi in, it's usually waiting for a gate.

73
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:09 AM   #15  
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Originally Posted by aa73 View Post
We would LOVE to have your checklist at CAL. AA's 757/767 taxi/before TO checklist:

Taxi:
Isolation switches
Packs
Cargo heat
Engine anti ice
APU
Flaps
Flight controls
EICAS display
EGPWS
Recall
---------------------------
Before T/O:
T/O Data and bugs
T/R panel
MCP/Radios
Stab trim
Flaps
Autobrakes
Anti ice
Map display
T/O PA
Packs
Lights

To top it off, most of this can't be done until we get our load closeout, which usually comes up during taxi.

Now you can see why we have to taxi out so slow. On taxi in, it's usually waiting for a gate.

73
Holy sh*t..

Before Start (from memory, forgive me):

Door Lights Out
Fuel
Beacon
Seat belt sign
Reference Speeds
CDU
Trim
Flight Controls


After Start:

Engine Anti Ice
Isolation Switch
Packs
EICAS Recall
Autobrakes RTO
Flaps
Flight Deck Door Closed
Xpndr


Before TO:

Departure briefing (if any changes)
Departure Announcement
Flaps/TO config checked
Xpndr TARA
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:13 AM   #16  
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Wow. Nice. You don't even wanna see what our Before Start looks like. Oh well, maybe someday our airline will catch up with the times.
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:32 AM   #17  
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To be fair.... taxiing behind an AA MD80 can be extremely frustrating, especially if you have a commute to catch. I always laugh in Chicago about how they have one speed they go if they think you might get in front of them for departure, but then another speed once they've established themselves in front. I don't care how fast you taxi, but don't hold up everybody else.
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Old 09-11-2008, 11:32 AM   #18  
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wow. after reading that letter, all i gotta say is what the F...?! how did they get away with this!
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Old 09-11-2008, 11:45 AM   #19  
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And now for the real twist in this story...

The LAX captain suspended is a former CAL pilot accused of crossing the picket line at CAL in 1983. His only crime here at AA was to cross the active runway taxiing on a single engine and then stop too soon on the other side. Unfortunately the chief was in the aircraft behind him and followed across, but didn't have enough space to clear the runway. He later accused this captain, who scabbed at CAL, of doing it deliberately.

The ensuing show trial--in which APA spent thousands--resulted in a 15 day suspension. On top of all that, the LAX base has started a donation drive which has produced more than enough money to make this captain whole. Chances are this will be overturned in an arbitration and the worst that will have happen is that the LAX captain in question will have earned a 15 day paid leave.

Captain Osborn is under investigation by the FAA for using his cell phone during taxi ops to report the LAX captain.

I believe the term I would use at this point is: a cruel irony.
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Old 09-11-2008, 01:34 PM   #20  
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Thumbs down The Tools and Fools of AMR Mgt.

It never seems to admaze me the Indiviuals that are willing to sell out their fellow pilot's in an effort to advance themself's up the Tool and Fools list...

CA. "Tool" Osborne should be placed on everyone's NO Jumpseat List for his clear disregard of the FAR's..
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