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Old 09-11-2008, 03:25 PM   #21  
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Originally Posted by Spicy McHaggis View Post
Funny, at CAL on the 756 we have NO taxi checklist whatsoever. Everything is done and set up prior to push, including the numbers. Granted, sometimes they might be a little late and a CA will push without them, but by the time we're disconnected from the tug, the printer has rolled out the info. It's usually uplinked through the FMC before the printer gets it, anyway.

Everything that would normally be done on a taxi check is done on the before start or before takeoff. The before takeoff is every short, though. Departure announcement, Flaps/TO Config Check, any changes to the TO brief (that was done at the gate) and turning on the xpndr.

CAL's idea is to keep the pilots looking outside and not distracted while taxiing around.

Works pretty well.
How do you complete the before start checklist if you don't have the numbers? What's the hurry? Is it now okay to disregard procedures for the sake of expediency or maybe to SAVE THE AIRLINE?

Do everyone a favor at CAL and just stick to the procedures. We don't need any "cowboys."
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:11 PM   #22  
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Originally Posted by 7576FO View Post
As far as the ex TWA pilots response above, it is interesting how people only remember the good things about their previous employer. They remember none of the bad stuff.

In the short time before my furlough from American, I can remember both jumpseating and operating under American's procedures and it was noteworthy how long-winded their briefings were and how distracting and ergonomically inefficent some of their procedure were. For instance, my experience recalls that the Capt on the taxi-out did most of the work, while the F/O sat there and marveled what it would be like to be a Capt. In addition, I never got the fascination with the whole turn on/turn off the checklist items, light-gadget that was unique to American Airlines aircraft. From student pilots to airline crews most of use a piece of paper to challenge and respond.

Finally, in reference to the hand gernade you threw out regarding TWA ? Please thrill us with how this relates to a pilot getting busting for taxiing slow.

Maybe it's just my humble opinion, but whenever I run into former TWA pilots they always always always say how they miss TWA mostly because of the people that worked there. Whenever I come across former AA pilots here at UPS they always say how thankful they are to have left AA and the reason...the people and the infighting.

So yes, as a former TWA employee, still furloughed from AA; I do have fond memories of TWA because of the co-workers I worked with. Apparently, this sentiment is something not understood by American Airlines employees.

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Old 09-11-2008, 10:32 PM   #23  
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Originally Posted by Oldfreightdawg View Post
And now for the real twist in this story...

The LAX captain suspended is a former CAL pilot accused of crossing the picket line at CAL in 1983. His only crime here at AA was to cross the active runway taxiing on a single engine and then stop too soon on the other side. Unfortunately the chief was in the aircraft behind him and followed across, but didn't have enough space to clear the runway. He later accused this captain, who scabbed at CAL, of doing it deliberately.

The ensuing show trial--in which APA spent thousands--resulted in a 15 day suspension. On top of all that, the LAX base has started a donation drive which has produced more than enough money to make this captain whole. Chances are this will be overturned in an arbitration and the worst that will have happen is that the LAX captain in question will have earned a 15 day paid leave.

Captain Osborn is under investigation by the FAA for using his cell phone during taxi ops to report the LAX captain.

I believe the term I would use at this point is: a cruel irony.
Wait a minute...Is the LAX captain accused of being a scab? Or is he a scab?

I may have to change my views on this event. Maybe Capt. Osborn is not really the evil one, after all.
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:59 PM   #24  
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Before the merger and the total revamping of our procedures our taxi check on the 757 was : Flaps ....5 (or 15) planned, 5 (or 15) indicated. That's it. Now it includes a bunch of stuff we did on our before pushback flow. 90% of the stuff on your checklists should be done as a flow anyway. Checklists are for the big items that get you killed.

Our checkairmen fought and fought to keep our clean sytem but lost to the check and recheck and verify, and check mentality from the other side.

We also had a weight and balance system that had our trim sheets done by the station and printed out at the jetway before we closed the door. Worked well and it put the onus on the sttion to be on top of the numbers. Now we push back and wait for our numbers that get transmitted from the gate to ops to central load planning in PIT where the load agent minimizes the poker screen........

Last edited by cactusmike; 09-11-2008 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 09-11-2008, 11:04 PM   #25  
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To be fair.... taxiing behind an AA MD80 can be extremely frustrating, especially if you have a commute to catch. I always laugh in Chicago about how they have one speed they go if they think you might get in front of them for departure, but then another speed once they've established themselves in front. I don't care how fast you taxi, but don't hold up everybody else.


Or could it be ...

They go one speed before they get their numbers.

And another speed when they have their numbers and have the checklists complete.

Probably closer to the truth. And I have never even seen the cockpit of an AMR aircraft, how would I know ?

I am staying at a Holiday Inn Express !



Later, the Brown CC
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Old 09-12-2008, 03:23 AM   #26  
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Originally Posted by FliFast View Post
In the short time before my furlough from American, I can remember both jumpseating and operating under American's procedures and it was noteworthy how long-winded their briefings were and how distracting and ergonomically inefficent some of their procedure were. For instance, my experience recalls that the Capt on the taxi-out did most of the work, while the F/O sat there and marveled what it would be like to be a Capt. In addition, I never got the fascination with the whole turn on/turn off the checklist items, light-gadget that was unique to American Airlines aircraft. From student pilots to airline crews most of use a piece of paper to challenge and respond.

Finally, in reference to the hand gernade you threw out regarding TWA ? Please thrill us with how this relates to a pilot getting busting for taxiing slow.



Maybe it's just my humble opinion, but whenever I run into former TWA pilots they always always always say how they miss TWA mostly because of the people that worked there. Whenever I come across former AA pilots here at UPS they always say how thankful they are to have left AA and the reason...the people and the infighting.

So yes, as a former TWA employee, still furloughed from AA; I do have fond memories of TWA because of the co-workers I worked with. Apparently, this sentiment is something not understood by American Airlines employees.

FF
LonzoTWA wrote,
Its taken a lot of work to make that place the pit it is.

It was the 2nd post on this thread.
7576
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Old 09-12-2008, 04:09 AM   #27  
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The obvious: The "chief pilot" should be 1) removed from his position by a blatant disregard for FARs, sterile cockpit 2) Given a sim check for his blatant disregard for FARs 3) Be taken to task by the FAA for his blatant disregard for the FARs.

In the old days (or in some instances these days), a chief pilot was a position of leadership. Someone who had been there, done that, set the example of professionalism and standards, someone that not only could be an advocate for the company, but who had enough line experience to understand the line captain's perspective. Not some company stooge looking for a step up to the next rung. We all know or remember CPs that we could go in and talk with about some issue and others that you steered clear of.

Simply, if this chief pilot is not removed from his position, at the least, you guys at AA have bigger problems other than management. I feel for ya. I wonder what his f/o was thinking as he is yammering away of his cell while on an active taxiway (taxiing or not). Time to get the ole United clickers out on this guy. He is a disgrace, no matter what the issue was or is with the other captain.
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Old 09-12-2008, 05:05 AM   #28  
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Wait a minute...Is the LAX captain accused of being a scab? Or is he a scab?

I may have to change my views on this event. Maybe Capt. Osborn is not really the evil one, after all.
I say "accused" because I don't know his name, so I have no way of positively verifying it. The information comes from our union vice chair in ORD (ALPA equivalent to MEC chair). Considering the source, I decided to make the post.
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Old 09-12-2008, 05:26 AM   #29  
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How do you complete the before start checklist if you don't have the numbers? What's the hurry? Is it now okay to disregard procedures for the sake of expediency or maybe to SAVE THE AIRLINE?

Do everyone a favor at CAL and just stick to the procedures. We don't need any "cowboys."
We ARE doing everyone a favor. Our numbers (if you read his post) ARE given to us before the start and pushback (95% of the time we receive them five to ten minutes prior to push......the other 5% is closer to push due to late bags, additional pax or change of runways which requires us to obtain another accuload). So, to answer your question, their is no hurry like you seem to think. What procedures are being disregarded? We get our numbers, check them with whats uploaded (or set them on the round dials), and then run our before start checklist BEFORE we begin the push. Simple, easy, and efficient. I don't see where this is disregarding any procedure since this is the way the airline wants us to do it. I think you have us confused with the another airline that taxi's like a scalded cat (or pig with lipstick if you like......) and ALWAYS seems to be in a hurry. Sorry to burst your bubble..............
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Old 09-12-2008, 05:48 AM   #30  
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We ARE doing everyone a favor. Our numbers (if you read his post) ARE given to us before the start and pushback (95% of the time we receive them five to ten minutes prior to push......the other 5% is closer to push due to late bags, additional pax or change of runways which requires us to obtain another accuload). So, to answer your question, their is no hurry like you seem to think. What procedures are being disregarded? We get our numbers, check them with whats uploaded (or set them on the round dials), and then run our before start checklist BEFORE we begin the push. Simple, easy, and efficient. I don't see where this is disregarding any procedure since this is the way the airline wants us to do it. I think you have us confused with the another airline that taxi's like a scalded cat (or pig with lipstick if you like......) and ALWAYS seems to be in a hurry. Sorry to burst your bubble..............
Reread his post.

Just say no to drinking and posting.
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