Whats going on at Airtran?
 

Sorry if this is old news but I heard Airtran threatened to fire all New-Hires if the Union were to require the company to honor part of the contract. Specifically, if furloughees were to be trained as instructors the company would bring out the axe? Is this accurate? Old news? Ongoing?

Thanks Scoop

The company said they would fire vs furlough 169 pilots. This was to circumvent the contract. The contract required that prior to any line pilot being furloughed the company would have to furlough the retired pilots working in the training center. Since the 169 were on probation the company could fire without cause. The union signed a letter of agreement that gave the company relief. The 169 got furloughed and the training center remained.

Did the company and the NPA have contract talks on Wed?

I still can't believe that's what they are doing, what a crappy union to sign off on that. Besides the traing dept is not going to be doing nearly as much with no new hires. Huge slap in the face from management to every pilot.

The union has to represent ALL of the pilots. It's tough to put the axe to 169 pilots just to get some old Eastern guys furloughed (any scabs in this group by chance?).

It's easy to shoot from the easy chair here and say NPA caved - why put that provision in your contract if you'll just give relief on it once the rubber hits to road? Tough call, and what leaders have to do sometimes. Also shows the true colors of Air Tran management though. Stephen Kolski is part of that team - "he oversees . . . labor contract negotiations", "co-founded New York Air", and honed his craft under Frank Lorenzo. I think that resume speaks for itself.

IMHO (which isn't worth much against the EURO), the fact of that matter is there is, or was, a section in the contract that says before furloughs happen the training guys had to be axed first. That was the agreement between the union and the company. It should abide by it. Instead they change the rules after both sides agree to them. Hmm, sounds similar to some seniority intergration thing I heard about.

I do see where this could pose a problem though. 169 guys fired vs. furloughed with a chance to come back. Hold the probation guys hostage. Down right sucks.

If they were furloughed it would be okay, fired unacceptable.

....
 

Amen, Amen, Amen. I am part of the 169, and I couldn't figure out why they were doing this until I did some research on who we had running the place. We have Kolski, another guy from Mesa and the Dir. of Planning is Ex-NWA. It is the perfect storm of a-hole management. I won't speak for the rest of 168, but for myself and the guys I spoke with, we were not happy about the union signing the agreement to provide a furlough. This is a pilot group with a bunch of great guys/gals and have been negotiating a contract for 5 years. On top of that, the contract the pilots have now, according to a fleet manager, "is merely a suggestion":mad:. The company knowingly and willingly violates the contract and not one thing should have been given back to them. If it meant us getting fired..as far as I'm concerned...it would have been fine.

Anyway, its all water under the bridge now and its all done. I will say that everybody I flew with there was a class act and really wants the place and culture there to change, its just a huge battle to take on.

Do you plan to return when you are recalled (whenever that is)?

I am asking because I am in the "pool" at AT ... trying to decide what I will do whenever they start up new-hire training again.

You can respond here or via PM ... your call. Thanks! :)

Right now, the 169 are being told 2-3 years for recall. We have deferred all our new a/c deliveries until October of 2010.

I find it hard to believe they would keep a 'pool' for the duration of the furlough.

Industry average for furloughed pilots returning after one year or more is about 12% (APA stats).

Most of the guys I have spoken too will not be coming back (myself included).

I may be out as well. I just got my propaganda mailing from the company about how we (pilots) need to take pay concessions, reduce amount going into our B-fund, etc. There was NO mention of SK, KG, or Bobbie giving back their insane bonuses. If they are the best airling management team in the business then they better start acting like it!

The letter cited pilot payroll as the second largest expense at AT and it need to be reduced for the company to survive. I don't think reducing pilot payroll will save that much money in the long run. It also wanted concession to last for at least 36 months. They are financing the current operation and minimumize losses by selling aircraft, including one 717.

They can go pound sand. These guys are friggin morons. Try raising ticket prices and see how that helps the bottom line.

Best airline management team? MY A##.

If the union had stood firm and the company fired the pilots you would have won the grievence. It would have taken time to go through the process however intent in a contract is very important in the grievence process. Clearly the company was going against the intent of the clause. In addition the standard to fire someone is the same if you are on or off probation. They have to have reasonable cause. In this case there would not have been reasonable cause for a firing and they would have had to furlough. I am not sure why the union caved. They had to know they were on solid legal footing.

If you guys agree to paycuts to already low pay, then what's the point in saving the company that pays you on par with a regional?

We should all send those letters right back to the company..."Return to Sender".

I agree completely. The union never should have signed this letter. Unbelievable... And you AirTran guys should be fired up over this! This is how your union dues work for you?? ***?

Let it go Dwight....let it go....... you will feel better if you do.

Give me a shout when you can....

AV,

Did you mean because the returning TWA pilots are returning at the top end of the payscale because many of the returning TWA furloughees were hired in 1988/89 ?

Thx,

FF

I'm not sure what I "meant"; I just repeated what my friend said.

Then again, isn't your reply somewhat contradictory? If they are all coming back at the “top end of scale” wouldn't more of them want to come back? I’m not really sure what you’re saying… :confused:

Rascal,
I totally agree in not taking a pay cut. We are very close to being the lowest paid in the industry already! Capt. Miller wrote the letter I believe shortly after drinking the company coolaid at the "Give-us-your-paycheck-and-be-thankful-you-have-a-job" seminar. Heck, for what they start out now and in the future with their "suggestions", it will be more lucrative to go back to the regionals and fly.

Our union should also be shot for giving in to the furlough/fire issue, as well. It wouldn't stand up in court and would cost the company MONEY (possibly some of SK, KG, or Bobbie's bonus). Apparently, that is the only financial source we haven't tapped and should be next on the agenda of "who can we screw for money" campaign.

Yes, I am bitter!

I think the entire pilot group is bitter. If the company thinks they can send us that BS letter to convince us to take cuts so they can getter bigger bonuses they have another thing coming to them.

I totally agree!