GQpilot

I agree, it would be nice if the system worked with less regulation, but it doesn't. Look at the finance/bank mess we're in. A lot of it started when the oversight was pulled from financial institutions. It would be nice if we could all play nice together, but there's always some greedy SOB to screw things up. Just my 1 1/2 cents.

River6

United was in serious trouble before Titlon arrived. You don't think United Airlines Pilot union "sick out" stranding 100,000+ passengers in Denver that one year had anything to do with the way United Airlines is viewed? You don't think that had repercusions on their bottom line?? Blaming one person for the fall of United Airlines is near sighted to say the least. What about United hiring standards over the years? I can remember a time when their interviews were confrontational. I know personally of at least two guys who walked out of their interviews and said no thanks. Just my opinion.

River6

Yeah, it's called lending money to people who cannot pay it back. No matter how much regulation you have, if you have political parties holding guns to banks and lending instituions heads to lend money to people they know cannot pay it back then no amount of regulation in the world is going help us. Stop the entitlement programs.

Bond

While I agree that management's decisions are mostly responsible for the outcome; it's a bit hypocritical for a CEO to ask for pay cuts from his labor groups, and not take a significant margin himself...it's called leading from the top.

I've read "hard landings", and there are quite a few inaccuracies particularly when referring to the input from the unions. Try reading "flying the line Vol. I and II", it may shed a bit more light.

I can tell you one thing is for sure, in our current environment (the past 10 years) both the union and the pilots have bent over backwards to keep this industry alive (pay cuts, work rule concessions, contract extensions). It's folks like Tilton that are driving the airlines into the ground. So please make sure you're with the program, unions (labor) are not the problem in today's environment...MANAGEMENT is.

River6

Did you get that from the ALPA handbook?? Unions don't share the responsiblity for any failings of the airlines? Right, if you believe that I have some beach front property I will sell you cheap in AZ. Tell, that to the a large portion of the Eastern guys. I got news for your union presidents that preach that BS. They will still be recieiving a paycheck from the union when your butt is out there on a picket line and I gurantee you won't as a line pilot, so if you think your union always has your best interest at heart you had better think again.

I read "Flying the line, it was totally one sided and you talk about being inaccurate. During the Eastern strikes you had mechanics going out with ball pin hammers knocking out the CRT screens in the cockpits. That's really going to help your company's bottom line and get you a pay raise. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. I just laugh when I sit and listen to a bunch of union pilots think they can run a airline better than most higher managements. When the truth is that most union presidents personal finances at home are probalbly in a shambles.

IXLR8

Oh come on!! Ya have to pay these guys or they'll leave!!!! Gotta keep that talent and Know how!!!

proskuneho

I have to agree with a little of everyone's point of view.

1. Ideally, CEOs should be paid for success, not failure.
2. CEOs should be the first to take pay cuts. Their decisions impacted the airline more than that of the average employee. That would boost morale, which does help profits in the long run!
3. Unions were a great idea when they were created, and they are still necessary - especially in our industry! However, it is apparent that some union leaders are more interested in their OWN pay scale and job security than they are in ours!! If we didn't NEED them, they wouldn't have jobs! Do we really think they will REALLY go all the way for our best interest? Some of them do just enough to keep workers dependent on them.
4. Employees should not do things that damage or undermine their company. That is usually a one-way ticket to unemployment or other penalties for the masses. Striking should be enough to show that their services are valuable. If I were an airline leader, I would not want to negotiate with any group responsible for breaking anything intentionally.

Bond

You're clearly a management type. That's about all I can say about your post. History supports my statements, furthermore I've lived them. You didn't address my point about the industry in the past 10 years. We the pilots have given everything to sustain the industry in the past decade, and yet you want to blame the pilots and the unions, whatever you're smoking it must be good! Poor management decisions, as in the case of United are at the core of the state of the industry.

Check your facts before you post, "flying the line" is actually backed up by the national archives in DC as how the course events unraveled. While it's certainly used as a tool to promote unity and more specifically the importance of unionized labor, it's all based on actual events and not opinions.

Good luck trying to convince pilots that the current state of the industry is their fault, and I say pilots because we the pilots are the union. Seriously, are you even a pilot? Do you even work in the industry?

robthree

14 posts... member since 2 weeks ago.

Standard Anti-unionist drivel.

Did your screen name use to be Ellen?


Until you have something worthwhile to contribute to the discussion, just shut up.