UConnQB14

emerging:
i see you dont have PM yet, but e-mail me and we need to talk.. thanks

pvh

Joel Payne

Someone once said " If management will take care of the employees, the employees will take care of the business".

etops777

Communication.

EmergingAirline

PVH,

Email me at [email protected]

EA

Spike from flyi

Build a team. Don't treat any of the working groups as adversaries. In order to do this, it will take something very rare in business management and even more rare in airline management; don't lie to or double-cross your employees! You can not substitute impassioned letters from the senior leadership of the company to the workers about their "integrity". No matter how great the temptation, practice treachery or deceit once, and it will never be forgotten or forgiven. You've poisoned that waterhole.

deadstick

Definately taking care of your people is a must. Also have to keep the tin floating as much as possible and not sitting. I have often wondered if major airports are the best choice. Has any of the majors researched the possibility of a separate (private?) airport so they're aren't sitting in queue or in landing traffic? This could also be a major selling point since many people don't want to do the dreaded 3-hour wait at the airport.

Perhaps first class is a waste of time. How does the income per square foot of first class cabin space compare to that of coach?

There are a couple of hooks and gimmicks they can try, but they are all usually short-lived as competition catches up.

They just need to quit trying to give the service out cheap. When you think about what a $300 plane ticket gets you, its a real good deal and cutting that ticket down to $250 or less just turns the public perception of the airline industry into that of a garbage can with wings. There used to be a time when the flight itself was as much of the vacation as the destination. People loaded into DC-3s and actually enjoyed the flight. Now between the airport hassles (God bless the TSA), sitting on the taxiway and the impersonal service of it all, the flight has become the dreaded part of the vacation. To many, the vacation doesn't even start until they are driving away from the destination airport. Hmmm...perhaps the major airport is what is eroding the fun of flying.

ryane946

First off, I am fortunate to have free flying benefits on United, and as a result I sit in first class on at least 20 trips a year. So I have a good perspective of who does, and who does not sit in first class.

Number one, first class is not full of all upgrades. When I check the loads, before anyone can upgrade using miles, a typical flight looks something like 15/24 in first class. It is not uncommon to see first class full! These tickets cost at least 4 times as much as an economy ticket.
Next, a lot of people fly in first class when they buy last minute tickets. Because last minute tickets are typically very expensive, and first class prices do not depend on date of purchase, a last minute traveler will often make the jump from economy to first class.
A lot of times, the people who I sit next to are business travelers who just don't care how much first class costs, because they can throw their company credit card down, and not worry. There are still travelers like this. It has obviously decreased since 9/11, but trust me, they still exist.

Finally, first class is a great perk for a frequent flier program. Like those old United commercials ripping on Southwest:
"Our miles are better than theirs..."

You can either spend 25,000 miles to buy a $200 plane ticket, or you can spend 5,000 (maybe its 8) to upgrade to first class. This is a big incentive to business travelers and is a reason why legacies still have loyal customers. No where is this more prevelant than on hub to hub flights on a 3 class 777.
The load will be like 7/12, 25/49, and 196/197. Then ALL the frequent fliers will upgrade. But since you can only upgrade one class of service, they upgrade to business. So business class usually fills up faster than first. This is nice for employee pass travel. I can't remember the last time I sat in business class. It is usually first class, or coach.

Also, first class seats take up about the room normally occupied by 2 coach seats. So as long as you can sell those seats for twice as much, or the incentive of keeping frequent fliers is worth 2 coach seats, first class will benefit airlines.

ryane946

To reply to the original question, I feel a good airline can be determined by a simple stat.

RASM > CASM.
Period. If that is true, than everything else can fall into place. You want a place with good work rules, well employees have power when an airline is making money.

deadstick

Thanks for the insight, Ryane946, us folks in steerage don't always know what things are like on the upper-deck.

We're going to be flying from Chattanooga to Vegas here in mid-May for a week, just the wife and I. Pricing out the airfare has made me realize what the problem is with airlines not making money: 2 people RT from Chat to Vegas for $423, that right there is the problem. The airlines should be charging much more than that. 2,000 road miles for $200, that's ten cents per mile and people complain about airlines charging too much.

RedOverWhite

I don't have PM yet, but shoot me an email: [email protected]. I think I'm embarking on the same endeavor as you and would like to ask a question or two.

Ryane is right and wrong, if you're making money everything *should* fall into place. It depends on what kind of filter that money has to fall through first, if you know what I mean. On his radio show the other day Jim Rome asked Jalen Rose what it would take to make things right in NY. "Winning" was his one word answer.