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WSJ - Another 6mth Delay To 787
Full WSJ story in this link here:
Boeing Jet Faces Delays in the Wake of Walkout - WSJ.com A program update is also due soon. (link) In a recent interview, Virgin Atlantic Airways Chief Executive Steve Ridgeway voiced customers' growing frustration. "We're pretty fed up," he said. "We've got no clarity from Boeing." Virgin was originally due to receive its first Dreamliner in 2011, but "we don't know how long the delay is now," Mr. Ridgeway said. He referred to the Dreamliner as "the world's rarest airplane." |
Geez...I had plastic airplanes as a kid in the 70s. They can't be that hard to make. :D
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Originally Posted by Doug Masters
(Post 512108)
Geez...I had plastic airplanes as a kid in the 70s. They can't be that hard to make. :D
The 787 was marketed as the aircraft that would burn 20% less fuel. Neither the Rolls Royce nor the GE engines will provide that. This is very slippery marketing indeed and may present more problems ahead. AL |
I just heard that the 787 is heavier than planned, which means more fuel burn and less range. They are still trying to get back to planned weights. First few planes might be heavier than planned.
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Just finished my yearly PC in IAH, and word is that Larry would rather wait for the 787 vs getting more B777's due to the substantial fuel savings of the 787. Will be interesting to see what happens. I hope Boeing gets their act together soon since now it seems they're promising things they can't deliver, are are starting to mimic Airbus in the delay arena. Once the dollar starts getting stronger, then Airbus will be more cost advantageous, and Boeing will be looking like the big three automakers. I smell another corporate bailout headed this way ........:(
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I have a feeling that someday the history books will show that these program delays led to the rise of China's AVIC as a major player in the aircraft manufacturing industry. They're years away from that now, but it will happen. You heard it hear first.
Skyward80 |
Boeing is paying for all of its outsourcing. When you build all the main components of the aircraft in completely different parts of the world by the cheapest bidder this is what you get, an really expensive erector-set airplane that doesn't quite fit. The machinists struck because thier new contract had little to no protection from outsourcing thier jobs. I find it ironic that boeing blames delays on the machinists when it was the outsourcing in the first place that caused the delay.
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Originally Posted by skyward80
(Post 512152)
I have a feeling that someday the history books will show that these program delays led to the rise of China's AVIC as a major player in the aircraft manufacturing industry. They're years away from that now, but it will happen. You heard it hear first.
Skyward80 Back to China, if you think this is bad for Boeing could you imagine a rice farmer riding to work on a rickshaw then trying to assemble a complex plane? That plane would frighten me. |
Originally Posted by Ottopilot
(Post 512127)
I just heard that the 787 is heavier than planned, which means more fuel burn and less range. They are still trying to get back to planned weights. First few planes might be heavier than planned.
Given the strenuous tests the first test 787's will go through, coupled with the delays, I'm sure Boeing will compensate those customers handsomely, ANA especially! |
Originally Posted by DAL4EVER
(Post 512189)
Hopefully not. But you may be right. The main reason for these delays is that Boeing decided to contract out much of the component manufacturing to the lowest bidder rather than doing it in-house. The contract suppliers it seems made Boeing some very nice promises. The salesman told Boeing "Oh yeah, we can build that no problem. We've got tremendous experience in doing what you want and we do it cheaper than anyone else." Truth is, they didn't have the experience or know what they were doing. Now Boeing is paying the price in a mis-managed program whose health relies on a bunch of inexperienced suppliers.
At this rate, 787 will be out on the street about the same time as A350EX (or whatever it's called). |
Originally Posted by Mink
(Post 512352)
While you may be right about the "mechanics" of the delay problem, the blame, IMHO, still rests with Boeing. For something this important, they should have done their homework a little more thoroughly regarding the capabilities of their suppliers.
At this rate, 787 will be out on the street about the same time as A350EX (or whatever it's called). |
CAL ordered 8 777's because of the 787 delay. I also heard they're looking for any good used 777's. Too many international destinations with no planes to fly them. :confused:
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Originally Posted by DAL4EVER
(Post 512397)
This is systemic of the larger decline of our manufacturing and engineering talent pool.
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Originally Posted by DAL4EVER
(Post 512397)
No doubt. I completely agree. The gist of what I was trying to get across is rather than doing the work in house with their experienced engineers, they went with "risk sharing partners" who had little to no experience doing what they promised. Boeing has laid off many junior engineers while retaining engineers who are close to retirement and many if not most won't be around for another plane. The problem is that Boeing is losing all of the people who had the knowledge and experience to resolve these problems. This is systemic of the larger decline of our manufacturing and engineering talent pool.
The competetive and comparative advantages of world class vendors is a must. One of the most sophisticated programs was the Rolls Royce Trent 1000 which was delivered and certified on time and on budget. Ok, Boeing has a longer history with RR than it does with most vendors, but the principles of program management are the same. AL |
When are they gonna cancel the program?
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I suspect that if they were going down that route, it would have been down long ago.
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Originally Posted by DAL4EVER
(Post 512397)
This is systemic of the larger decline of our manufacturing and engineering talent pool.
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Originally Posted by madman moe
(Post 515773)
But we have plenty of investment bankers!
About time to cull the herd. |
http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com Boeing 787 Hit By New Delay
EVERETT, Wash., Dec. 11 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA - News) today announced an updated schedule for its all-new 787 Dreamliner program that moves the commercial jet's first flight into the second quarter of 2009 and first delivery into the first quarter of 2010. The new schedule reflects the impact of disruption caused by the recent Machinists' strike along with the requirement to replace certain fasteners in early production airplanes. "Our industry team has made progress with structural testing, systems hardware qualification, and production, but we must adjust our schedule for these two unexpected disruptions," said Boeing Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Scott Carson. Prior to the strike that halted much of the company's commercial airplane work from early September into November, the 787 was to make its first flight late in the fourth quarter of 2008. First delivery was slated for the third quarter of 2009. "We're laser focused on what needs to be done to prepare for first flight," said Pat Shanahan, 787 program vice president. "We will overcome this set of circumstances as we have others in the past, and we understand clearly what needs to be done moving forward." |
Building composite state-of-the-art airliners, like shrimping, is TOUGH.
- Forrest Gump |
One of the reasons Boeing moved corporate headquarters to Chicago was “…to get the engineers out of the board room”. It looks like that was a bad move. The 787 is in deep trouble, the 747 -8 is way behind schedule and they can not even hang a boom on the 767 without botching it (reference the badly delayed Italian KC-767 program).
With regard to the the 787, it may not just be the physical building of the airplane that is at issue. A lot of engineering work was also farmed out, so certification could be interesting. Boeing. The GM of the skies. |
While Boeing and the 787 are having its problems; all new aircraft do. It's up to a one year delay. That's really not that bad overall (so far). The plane still has a record number of orders for a new type. I think it's 895 firm orders? Once the program is finally running and aircraft are being delivered, you'll see even more orders. Even with the problems, this plane is on its way to being one of the most successful aircraft in history. That could change, but this is really normal for a new type. :rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by Ottopilot
(Post 516531)
While Boeing and the 787 are having its problems; all new aircraft do. It's up to a one year delay. That's really not that bad overall (so far). The plane still has a record number of orders for a new type. I think it's 895 firm orders? Once the program is finally running and aircraft are being delivered, you'll see even more orders. Even with the problems, this plane is on its way to being one of the most successful aircraft in history. That could change, but this is really normal for a new type. :rolleyes:
I hope that the airplane does well in the long run, but right now Boeing management ought to be taking a good hard look in the mirror and thinking about how their MBA tainted minds have treated their production workers and engineers. At the end of the day it is the engineers and factory workers who generate income by putting real airplanes on real ramps. In this regard Boeing’s problems are just another example of a broader problem in American business management, aspects of which those of us in the airline industry are painfully aware of. |
The majority of press releases I've read point blame towards "the machinist union strike" as being the biggest culprit. Nice how management always seems to blame the employees for THEIR failures. What a bunch of crap.............:rolleyes:
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Best thing all round would to bring back inhouse large swathes of outsourced work.
But I doubt that that'll ever happen... |
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