JungleBus

No resentment over the flowdown, it was the one scrap that NW pilots got for allowing the outsourcing and I was fully aware of it when I came here as was everyone else. Of course I don't like the prospect of being out of work any more than the next guy, but I'm flying with a lot of guys whose companies shut down completely and unexpectedly, so that lends a little perspective.

If there's resentment, it's over the senior widebody guys' willingness to sell the narrowbody guys' jobs to keep their pension. The contract vote fell pretty closely along seniority lines, classic "divide and conquor." I understand NW pilots kinda had the gun to their head in BK, but after emerging from BK I've seen little interest in recapturing the 76 seat flying or at least discouraging the company from transfering flying. Instead, they "negotiated" a contract - not ammendable until 2013! - that's below average for the regionals, with worse payrates than Republic's contract that became ammendable in 2007! Last year I went to a LEC 1 meeting where some Compass business came up, and you shoulda heard the grumbling among 330 and 747 guys that we were even allowed in the room, much less allowed to discuss business at "their" meeting. After that they created separate pre-meetings for Compass stuff to be dealt with quietly and without disturbing the widebody pilots.

Anyways, I could go on with that rant but I won't because assigning blame doesn't do anything to foster unity. And, I really can't squawk too loudly because I knew the score when I took the job. It's really frustrating to see all the mainline carriers shrink more and more and the prospects of a mainline job get ever dimmer for those of us still at the regionals, with nothing that we can do about it.

MoonShot

JungleBus,

Thanks for the info. As a junior DL guy, I certainly hope that it doesn't come to this. I do believe however, that if DL furloughs, you won't see 100% participation in the flowdown. From what I've talked to some military guys in my class, they say that they can make more in a week of mil leave than on a month of reserve at DL so I can't imagine if they get let go they are going to commute to MSP, DTW, or MEM for less than they are getting now. Whether or not thats true, I have no idea, just food for thought.

Imapilot2

For those in the know. What would be the result if.....IF....Delta furloughed lets say 300, then a year later furloughed another 300? Who gets the Compass and Mesaba jobs? The first 300 or the last?

RoughLandings

The first 300 would displace the Compass list, fly that until more senior folks at DL were furloughed, then they would flush the first 300 out. That is why it is cost prohibitive for DL to furlough at the moment.

bohicagain

Wow thats is a lot of writing for early in the morning.

Jungle is right on with everything he said.
DTW trips have varied. This next month we have a lot of 4 days followed by a 2 day. The trips have gotten worse in the recent month. I live in DTW and besides the day trips which I cannot hold I get to do 4 days. Most trips are commutable unless you get that 530 show on day 1 with a midnight release on day 4. Yeah it suck

Lighteningspeed

Good post. It was a lot of reading but an eye opener regarding Compass Operations. Better work rules at XJ but overall similar situation at XJ regarding schedules, although more lines are commutable at XJ it seems based on your info.

I agree with what you are saying about senior wide body CAs at both NWA and DAL only looking out for themselves. It's ironic those who benefitted the most from Age 60 rule changed it just before they turned 60 so they benefit the most from the Age 65 rule.

Lighteningspeed

This has been addressed in another DAL thread but to answer your question, like Junglebus said first 320 would go to Compass and for Mesaba only the same number of pilot who have flowed up can flow down. Right now that is 13 CRJ900 CA slots. Therefore, after the first 333 pilots, there would be no more vacant pilots at either Compass or at Mesaba to flow down.

Imapilot2

Hmmmm. Thats not quite what roughlandings said.
Always slots, just constant bump and flush as more furloughs happen. Or are you saying after the slots are filled the first time its over?

JungleBus

Yeah, that's not quite right Lightningspeed. If Delta should furlough, say, 500 pilots, the most senior 333 would be able to flow down to CP and XJ. If there was a subsequent furlough, those senior furloughees would be able to displace current flowdowns that are junior to them.

Now, as others have pointed out the astronomical training costs would wipe out Compass' cost advantage and make furloughing a costlier proposition, so Delta may choose to remain "fat" and not flow down that many. I personally don't see how we can avoid at least some flowdowns/furloughs unless the economy turns around quickly (which I don't really see happening).

Lighteningspeed

There are only around 318 pilots at Compass and only 13 have flowed up from Mesaba so far. So if DAL starts to furlough in 2009 instead of resuming flow up, the first 331 pilots would flow down to Compass and Mesaba based on their seniority. After that there are no more pilot spots for you to flow down to.