forgot to bid

What about this rumor that Compass was sold last week? Anyone heard anything else about it?

RockyBoy

Yeah, is there anything in the contract language that stops the flow if they are sold? I worked for XJT when they had the flow to CAL and it didn't take them long to IPO XJT and the flowdown stopped. They didn't get it done quick enough to stop guys from coming back to XJT, but they wanted to. If there is anything in that contract that says the flowup and flowdown stops if they are no longer owned by NWA/DAL, I'd expect the place to be sold here very quickly.

The Duke

All of this discussion seems to underscore why a flow-through (flow-ups as well as flow-downs) makes no sense financially. I'm really surprised NW had this arrangement w/ the Compass operation. From a pilot's perspective, it's seen as an "easy" in to a legacy carrier, but history seems to suggest that these flow-through arrangements turn out messy and expensive.

I don't know much about the old ExpressJet flow-through w/ Continental, but it's gone now. If you're running a business and want to keep your costs under control, you want to be able to bid accordingly for flying contracts w/ regional feed. An airline is unable to do this when they have a flow-through arrangement. Like him or hate him, this was one of the reasons Bethune at Continental wanted the flow-through w/ ExpressJet to end. Now Delta finds itself in a bit of a bind because they need to control costs as the economy downsizes, but sending furloughed Delta pilots to Compass and bumping Compass pilots to the street seems awfully costly. The training costs would be ginormous. Hence the rumor that Compass might be sold/is sold gains credence at this point. It may be cheaper for Delta to file for divorce.

whaledriver1

I agree, it's time to start having fun with the NWA over 60 SCABS.

Time to play hardball guys...

The NWA over 60 list is floating around MSP, MEM and DTW... it's time to show this very special group of pilots some love.

acl65pilot

I need to look but Superpilot92 and a few other state that the flow survives Compass being sold.

slowplay

For a guy that works for an airline that went on strike in 1998 to say this...

You're either a new hire or ignorant.

I hope that you're shown some very special love if you violate either your contract, ADEA or the Railway Labor Act. Don't bring your personal grudges to my house. They're not welcome. You might want to take a look at APA and a few of our UAL brethren to understand the ramifications of your call.

forgot to bid

Yeah I was XJT too when that happened but my recollection was they cancelled flow through in mid 2001 and then the day after(ish) 9/11 reinstated it. The IPO was in the spring of 2002. So if I remember right they didn't want the flow through and then when they needed it they brought it back. That flow through sucked. The flow back I can understand was part of the game but it was pointless for those of us hired in 2000 to wait to go to CAL. It to me, led to a lot of guys sitting on their you know whats and not trying to get a job, they'd just wait and wait.

RockyBoy

That would be good. The other question I would have is if you flow down does your longevity at DAL stop while your at Compass? If you take the furlough, then your longevity would continue to accrue.

RockyBoy

Your right. The original IPO was slated to happen the week after 9/11. That was when it was suppose to stop, but for obvious reasons, the IPO was postponed. CAL didn't want to honor it because if the costs associated with the flow back pilots after 9/11. The IACP forced them to honor the flow agreement until the actual IPO which went down in 2002 so the pilots were allowed to flow back. Once the IPO was done in 2002, the whole deal was cancelled. There were about 200 that were allowed to go over after that without interviewing because the IACP cut a deal with CAL. They didn't get the same deal as the original flow-ups did although they did flow up when CAL started hiring again.

FWIW, most CAL guys who could see they would not be able to hold a Captain slot did not flow down. It helped that they furloughed in one big lump, because guys could see what they would hold. If Delta furloughs in one big chunk, I think you would see the same thing. The problem arises when Delta furloughs 150, then six month later furloughs some more. Now those who thought they could be at Compass making $65/hr are pushed back to $24/hr. Overall, it is a risky option for anyone if you don't know how deep the furloughs will go. It will also cost the company TONS of money. I think ALPA should be all over the costs involved with this deal and attempt to bring all the E jets over to mainline.

JungleBus

OK, this is interesting. Here's from the flowthrough LOA:

This seems to indicate that they could terminate flowup but keep the flowdown if they wanted, and terminating flowup would have no negative impact on NWA, only termating flowdown would trigger the reduced cap. That of course is a moot point since the NWA/ALPA agreement is no longer in force. Anyone know what the scope section in the new DL/NW JCBA says about the effect of terminating flowdown on the cap on 70-76 seat jets?