DAL in CVG
 

Saw over the weekend that there was to be a "town hall meeting" in CVG today. Here is what was put out on Delta Net. Would love to hear from someone who was actually there.

Delta leaders traveled to Cincinnati Monday to meet with cross-divisional employees and share strategic thinking about our operations and outlook at the hub. Glen Hauenstein, e.v.p.-Network Planning and Revenue Management, Steve Gorman, e.v.p. and chief operating officer, and Gil West, s.v.p.-Airport Customer Service, met at the airport Monday morning with more than 200 employees from Airport Customer Service, Delta Cargo, Flight Operations, In-Flight Service, Reservation Sales and Delta TechOps.

"Cincinnati is a viable and ongoing hub in the Delta network," Steve told employees. "This station has a reputation as a very well-managed and collaborative hub with excellent customer service."
Glen discussed the effects of the global economy on our network and specifically how it relates to CVG operations.
"International is likely to be more challenging over the next several years as carriers have added a lot of capacity in the marketplace," he told employees. "The dynamics of the domestic operations are changing and may be more favorable as we emerge from this current economic cycle." The leaders also visited the Reservations call center to meet with Res leadership in the afternoon. They also met with Comair leaders and CVG civic and community leaders afterward.

Don't know what happened at the meeting but its the best through flight hub in the DAL system.

I posted in the "DAL Latest & Greatest" thread last night about some memos and emails from Cincinnati area businesses regarding the slow pull out of CVG.

Apparently, local businesses are telling the local government that they will move out if DAL pulls out.

Does anyone have any info to back this up?

-Fatty

The keep saying they are committed to CVG, yet every other day they pull a flight. DAL is down to 40 flights in March, only 2 widebodys(fra+cdg), and only 2 flights on 757's (lgw+slc). The rest are on M88/M90/737.

Actions speak louder than words, and the same thing that happened to DFW is going to happen to CVG!

MEM is probably next.

If CVG makes money, it stays. If it loses money, or more can be made elsewhere it should go. Simple equation for the management guys.

I'm sure you remember DAL pilot bases at Seattle, San Francisco, Portland, Chicago, DFW, Houston, New Orleans, Boston, Miami, and Orlando. IFS now has virtual basing in a couple of those places.

CVG does make money, it has had the highest fares in the country for the past couple of years. The problem is that DL keeps downsizing it and more and more passengers are choosing to drive a little to save alot. CVG makes money, but closing CVG and routing all that feed thru DTW will save make Delta alot more than keeping CVG open.

Remember CVG has the 2nd smallest metro area out of all the hubs, and it has the smallest number of O&D passengers. DTW has a brand new facility and can easilty accomodate all of CVG's traffic.

MEM is a little more complicated as its a fairly larger community, its a little further from ATL, and i'm not sure how much more traffic ATL can handle. Closing MEM might not be a feasable option....yet.

MEM has a lot more going for it than CVG in my opinion. One major factor is FedEx. Whether people believe it or not, Fred Smith would have something to say about a MEM base closing, considering over half of his pilots commute into MEM on the airlines. Also MEM doesn't have nearly the amount of winter weather that CVG goes and so it operates very efficiently all year around. And yes, MEM is further from ATL than CVG is from DTW, and ATL can't handle any more flights. I see MEM growing as a regional hub with some west coast flights remaining and maybe even some int'l flights on top of the current Amsterdam route. Just an opinion, but I don't see MEM closing.

Delta could give a rat's ass about what Fred Smith thinks. We craft routes and bases based on our revenue not whether or not guys can commute. We also don't care about the weather. We fly regardless. That's why NY and Salt Lake are instrumental in our plans. Memphis is a nice little operation that can't compare, right now, to the rest of our bases. Its our old New Orleans base which we closed several years ago. If we're gonna keep Memphis open, we'd be much better off reopening DFW. Plus, MEM international? What are you smoking? The real international business is not out of a small southeast hub but the growing Atlanta and LA business to South America and Asia. Not too many hounddogs wanting to fly to Europe, Asia or Brazil. LOTS of displaced immigrants wanting to go home.

CVG has some outstanding selling points. Not tooting my regions own horn so to speak, but here are some of the facts taken from the CVG website.

-Nine Fortune 500 companies have headquarters here (ranks 6th per capita)
-360 Forturne 500 companies have operations within the region
-two thirds of the nation's top business and leisure destinations are within an hour's flight
-Since 1987 when CVG went non-stop international, the number of foreign firms has tripled
-for over 15 years, its been rated as one of America's most passenger-friendly airports
-according to the FAA, CVG has fewer enroute restrictions, less weather related flow restrictions, faster turnaround and reduced taxi time
-3 parallel runways, a fourth runway with 12,000 length for asia / european intl flights


Cincinnati's negatives are that it is the smallest metro area with such a large airport ... and it is close to Atlanta.

-Fatty

I'm sure DAL mgmt does care what Fred has to say. During the congressional hearings NWA mgmt testified that FDX was NWA's fifth largest customer. $$ ultimately talks.

About a year ago, when the merger was just being discussed, I asked the network guy in indoc if having a base in CVG and a base in MEM made any sense post-merger.
He said he wasn't allowed to answer that, but that a network textbook answer would be, "No, no sense at all."

Read into that what you will.

Granted, somewhat different situation, but when that type meeting happened at Mesaba, our CVG base was closed within a couple weeks and all (save 6 pilots being furloughed) were displaced to the other bases within 2 months.

Best thing for the local market in Memphis would be if Delta did pull its hub. SWA would be in there right quick and prices on point to point traffic would come down from the stratosphere.

People would cry foul initially, but in the long run it would be better (for the consumer). :eek:

Would CVG be a better SWA hub? MEM is close to BHM.

I thought I might ruffle a few feathers with some people with my post. But, the truth of the matter is, is that so many people throughout the region come to MEM to travel. Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Western Ky, Southern Missouri, East/Central Tenn...that's quite a market to just pull out of. With CVG, many people might as well just go to DTW. I think many people would rather fly out of MEM than ATL as well to avoid the horrible traffic in ATL and the congestion with the airport. You may be right that Delta doesn't give a rat's rear about FedEx, but again, $ talks and I can assure you Mr. Smith will do everything he can do to keep an airline hub in MEM. MEM may not have as many fortune 500 companies as CVG, but the market here is much larger as far as attracting people from so many different regions to fly out of MEM. I have nothing against CVG, I actually do like it there and hope that no base closures will happen. I just think if they do MEM will survive longer than CVG will for said reasons.

Fact is that DAL can right size CVG and MEM to make them profitable no matter what their size. What they have that DFW did not, is the high dollar customers that use them, and in some cases have contracts with them.
I am sure that we will always fly mainline jets from those cities, whether we have pilots based there is another story completely.

Correct, there is no definition of hub. There will always be a DAL presence in CVG, the question is...how big?

I have to say that I am REALLY surprised that Southwest has not announced CVG, almost untrue. If Southwest comes in you can kiss CVG goodbye!

I forsee CVG and MEM becming more of a focus city as MCO once was. You have regional lift, out and backs to the other hubs, as well as service to some major destinations, such as LAX, LAS, and so on. I can tell you that local business are going for the cheaper fares, but that's really a smoke screen that's due to the decrease in frequency to domestic destinations, or routes that have been dropped totally. So if they're forced to connect to get to their destination, why not take the cheaper fare from DAY, LEX , SDF, or CMH.

MEM is not going anywhere. They are about to start demolishing the old cargo area north of the C concourse to build a new international terminal for all west bound flights ie Narita. The plan is to have all west bound intl' Delta flights leave out of MEM and all east bound itnl' flights leave out of ATL.

Where did you hear this from? This is not what was told to us during my Indoc class.

-Fatty

Um that would be a total pain in the back side . Think about it.

That makes NO sense.

CVG is not going to go anywhere. Even E.B. was quoted in the news that CVG was good for Delta. It is dropping Austin, TX. as a destination out of CVG though. Still 91 destinations out of CVG.

Everyone also seem to think that DHL screwed CVG by getting them to give out all kinds of incentives for the new sorting facility next to 36R a few years ago, but DHL pays the rent on that facility every month on time.

LC carriers may be invited in, but the problem with that is that whatever incentives are giving to the new incoming carrier MUST also be given to any airline that was a tenant in 1974 (Delta). It is a requirement of a 1974 charter with any airline that was here at the time.

My next door neighbor is on the CVG airport board, so I get some info from her from time to time.

Yep, we got some sweet deals out of there. CVG makes money unlike DFW did.

Actually...I believe MEM is to be the divert field for all NRT-ATL flights!:cool:

Lets look at the real picture here.

Delta mainline departures in March 2008 = 62
Delta mainline departures in March 2009 = 40


On top of Austin, you might want to add Rome. Also, the number of flights operated by a 757 or larger equipment = 4



Your whole 91 destinations thing is pointless for me and my coworkers who are pilots, because as long as its not Delta mainline flights its not us working on them!

Would you also care to answer out of those 91 markets how many of them are mainline?

This is from yesterday's BizJournal:

Fitch cuts CVG debt rating

Fitch Ratings has given a negative outlook to the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport, citing an expected 30 percent reduction in the carrier’s capacity in 2009.

The ratings firm downgraded the airport’s $285 million in outstanding revenue bonds to ‘A-’ from ‘A.’ The bonds, secured by revenue at the airport, mature in 2033.

“The rating downgrade reflects the significant capacity reductions experienced to date by the airport’s largest carrier,” Fitch wrote in a press release. “These reductions are coupled with some loss of passenger-related revenue as a result of the decreased traffic moving through the airport. Expected passenger traffic for 2009 could be as low as that experienced in 1992.”

The negative rating comes as Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL) begins to execute its merger with Northwest Airlines. Fitch said it will be difficult for the combined carriers to maintain current levels of operations at their four hubs, in Minneapolis, Detroit, Memphis and Cincinnati. Further reductions in capacity will increase financial pressure, essentially making the airport less competitive as costs per passenger rise.

Delta controls the lion’s share of traffic at the airport – an estimated 85 percent, though Fitch put it at 92 percent of total volume in 2007. “The potential loss of the Delta Air Lines’ connecting hub poses serious financial implications to the (airport) authority,” Fitch stated.

Atlanta-based Delta in early December said it would reduce its 2009 capacity by up to 8 percent.

Fitch cuts CVG debt rating - Business Courier of Cincinnati:

Thank you for that article!

....but is she hot???

THIS is why I love being a pilot! Let's cut to the chase.

LMAO!!! Actually, she is pretty darn cute.


DALFA,

I understand your point, but whether CVG stays or goes is not going to be dependent on the number of mainline flts, just "Delta" flts, connection or whoever.

The loss of CVG as a whole, would be a lot more severe than just a few pilots and FA's who would would have to move or commute. There would be thousands out of work and an economic bomb to the tri-state area.

Thread divert:

Anyone know of a good FAA approved flight doc in the area. It's that time of year again! Please PM me with the info.

Thanks.