U.S. airlines sue FAA over crew rest rules

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01-06-2009, 08:43 PM

Rascal

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U.S. airlines sue FAA over crew rest rules

Good read. It seems that Continental pilots don't want more rest on their longer flights...

U.S. airlines sue FAA over crew rest rules - USATODAY.com

01-06-2009, 08:54 PM

blastoff

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rascal

Good read. It seems that Continental pilots don't want more rest on their longer flights...

U.S. airlines sue FAA over crew rest rules - USATODAY.com

They want as little time in Mumbai as possible...get in get out.

01-07-2009, 05:38 AM

Sniper

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rascal

It seems that Continental pilots don't want more rest on their longer flights.

Tell me there's more to this than the above, right?

Quote:

Continental pilots — who have flown between Newark, N.J., and Hong Kong for more than seven years — sided with their airline in opposing some of the FAA's requirements. The union told regulators that Continental's minimum rest after arriving in Hong Kong was adequate.

Please don't tell me this is like jetBlue's earlier stance of 'we can fly to the west coast and back, even if it means more than 8 hours of flying'.

ALPA's motto is 'schedule with safety'. How can CAL ALPA be on the other side of this one?

Waiting to hear the full story from someone in the know.

01-07-2009, 10:03 AM

Rascal

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Maybe ALPA and FAA should be more concerned with 16 hour duty day followed by a 8 hour rest (5 hours of sleep) and not extra 24 hours in Mumbai.

01-07-2009, 06:52 PM

Zoomie

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I think one of the arguments against this new regulation is that if you were to now have a 48 hour layover, you are now more affected by jet lag than if you only had a 24 hour layover. With such a long layover in a different time zone, your body starts its normal process of moving towards adapting to the new time zone which gives you jet lag thus making you more tired than you normally would be, whereas with only 24 hours of layover time, your body isn't going to try and adapt to the new time zone in such a short period of time.

I think that's the argument I heard.

Plus, CAL doesn't have any minimum pay per day for its trips, thus you would be stuck on a trip for another 24 hours without any extra pay besides per diem...

We have a winner...ding ding ding.

01-08-2009, 08:05 PM

directgomup

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoomie

Plus, CAL doesn't have any minimum pay per day for its trips, thus you would be stuck on a trip for another 24 hours without any extra pay besides per diem...

[quote=
Plus, CAL doesn't have any minimum pay per day for its trips, thus you would be stuck on a trip for another 24 hours without any extra pay besides per diem...[/quote]

Not so...

Part 3 - Trip Rig

A. A pilot who departs his Base on a Trip Pairing that, prior to Pairing origination,
contained a scheduled Rest Period of over twenty-nine hours (29:00), will receive the
greater of one (1) hour of pay for each four (4) hours elapsed period, prorated, while
away from Base, or the Credit Value of that Pairing. Such trip rig pay will be

computed so as to include the time required to report for duty prior to flight until the

end of duty upon Pairing termination, as provided for in Section 12.

Example 1: EWR-BOM-EWR = 58:35 TAFB Blocks 29:40, (4 day)
58:35 + 24 + 30 = 83:12 TAFB / 4 = 20:50. As you can see the trip pays more than the rig so you get the greater of the two.
( I added an extra day to the BOM layover to show the the trip still pays more than rig.)

Example 2: EWR-DUB-EWR = 65:50 TAFB Blocks 14:40, (4 day)
65:50 + 30 = 66:20 / 4 = 16:50
Trip Pays 16:50 for rig.
(+30 P+P)

About HKG...

I understand the the FAA wants to change the rule for any time flown over 12:00 (4 man crew) to be a rest of double what was flown for each leg. As it is now you must double out when you get back to base.

I don't know who made the statement about HKG, but a 16:00 hour flight would change to require a 32:00 break in HKG. CAL now has a minimum of 39:00, so they were correct in their remarks...

01-08-2009, 08:16 PM

rickair7777

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoomie

Plus, CAL doesn't have any minimum pay per day for its trips, thus you would be stuck on a trip for another 24 hours without any extra pay besides per diem...

Actually the problem would be days off...an extra day overseas will get you daily min credit...which is nowhere near what you block flying the pond. Those guys would be looking at fewer days off each month.

I'd be opposed too...if 24 hours isn't enough, I don't see how 48 is going to help.

01-08-2009, 09:47 PM

stoki

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rascal

Maybe ALPA and FAA should be more concerned with 16 hour duty day followed by a 8 hour rest (5 hours of sleep) and not extra 24 hours in Mumbai.

The FAA is too busy watching youtubes of flight videos and trying to bust the pilots who posted them, to care that there are pilots flying out there after 14-15 hours of duty.

01-09-2009, 06:08 AM

Ottopilot

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoomie

I've done Mumbai and another 24 hours would screw you up more, like you said above. Another 24 hours stuck in the hotel that is not safe to leave. Another 24 hours away from home (lost a day off).

Like others have said, you do get paid for that day, but the amount is way too low. Last week's flight was 16:16 to EWR.