Ozpilot414

And there are people in this country that fly that are not U.S. citizens

joepilot

Skip,

I VERY seriously doubt that. If that is the company policy, they would probably be found guilty of illegal discrimination.

Bryan

tzskipper

Maybe I should have said "most, if not all..."

Anybody recall these:

KLM owning part of NWA

BA's relationship with AMR (don't remember if they invested)

Lufthansa owning part of JetBlue

I am sure there are others, so it begs the question:

Is the "beef" really with SRB and the Virgin Group, or the employee's of VA?

Skipper

DAL4EVER

All of them fall within the guidelines set by U.S. law. That's what Alaska's question is? Is VA operating under the guidelines of U.S. law. If any of the U.S. hedge funds or investors pull up stake, they could be in violation of foreign ownership rules.

cesnacaptn

I have a beef with any company skirting U.S. ownership laws. I don't know for a fact, but I'm guessing NWA, AMR, and JetBlue never had more than 50% foreign ownership.

I also have a beef with pilots who are willing to work for below industry standard wages. I agree it's a fee country and you have the right to work for whatever wage you want. I also understand that we all have to put food on the table. It just upsets me to know that there are pilots out there undermining my ability to negotiate an appropriate wage. If you are furloughed United and work for Virgin, you are enabling the competition to erode your former employer's market share on the west coast. If VA went out of business, higher paying union jobs would be more plentiful.

LeeFXDWG

I agree with your point in general.

Having said that, ALPA has seen that pattern bargaining works both ways. Where are the "industry standard wages/benefits" listed.

While having a codified minimum would be a double edge sword, IMO, there needs to be one. No, the benefit of pattern bargaining up side may not be as fruitfull; however, the downside would have a limit as well.

It'll never happen in my lifetime based on the current ALPA mentality and leadership.

My 2 cents...

Frats
Lee

Fred Flintstone

On your first point, the DOT has carried out an investigation and required changes to the initial plan to gain certification. As part of that investigation, the buyback and resell rights of the US investor portions were disclosed and passed muster. So long as any buyback and resell of stock follows what was written in the show cause order it is legal. Read the docket, it's all in there.

On your second point, that's pretty easy for you or anyone else to say, so long as you aren't the out of work guy looking to cover a house payment. If you are, your story will change on a dime. What you are telling any unemployed/furloughed pilot is "tough luck sucker, but you can't work as a pilot if it possibly affects me". Sounds pretty selfish in those terms, doesn't it?

For Alaska to bark about this is just normal business. They are conducting a fishing expedition, nothing more.

cesnacaptn

I guess Alaska is trying to make sure that VA is still in compliance with the law. I'm sure VA has nothing to worry about since they are in compliance of the law right?

That's why I originally wrote, "I also understand that we all have to put food on the table." I realize that desperate times call for desperate measures.

So what's the justification of the pilots who left senior positions at regionals and the F.O. for another major who left for VA. They weren't "out of work guy looking to cover a house payment." I guess they're just happy to fly an Airbus for comparatively low wages.

tortue

People may hate on Virgin America, but they've got better in flight entertainment than most other airlines out there - and consumers care about that. A Virgin American A320/A319 is a better ride than an AAL or UAL 757 with the old-school TV's every 4-5 rows. I think Alaska offers folks a portable DVD player these days. Plus, Virgin is giving away first-class upgrades for $50 on an already sub-200 fee from SEA - SFO/LAX. Wont last long I'm sure, but sure is going to hurt anyone else in that market.

Fred Flintstone

On point one, that's exactly how I see it. Alaska does have the right under DOT rules to press the issue, so they are. I'll let the owners of VA answer the question as I honestly don't know the answer. I suspect they are smart enough to stay within the rules but that is for the DOT to determine.

On point two, we have a very diverse pilot group. I am from the "my airline went out of business" category, as are some here from Indy, ATA, Maxjet, and Aloha. We also have a group of returning expats, tired of the overseas life and coming home to roost. Then we have regional guys breaking out of the RJ mold, the glass ceiling broken by their first "big airplane" type rating. We also have quite a few ex USAir & America West guys escaping the love fest going on over there.

So, you can see there are a multitude of reasons to come here. Could the pay be better? Certainly, and we will press for more as the economy improves. Are we being treated well? In my opinion yes. Do I miss having a collective bargaining agreement? Quite frankly yes, but I don't see a bargaining agent out there right now that will look after our group's interest over their national agenda. There are very few here without at least a 10 year pin sitting at home (I have a 20 year pin), and the company knows it. OTOH, the company is hiring about 3 in 10 interviews right now, and the pilots know it.

Yaba daba do...

Fred