HercDriver130

Carl.....dude I agree. My EGO comment had nothing to do with pay... it had mainly to do with comments make by Rhino Driver about regional pilots going back to banner towing etc, until they could make it some where else.

FWIW.... do I think a 15 year ATR CA making 100k a year with decent QOL is part of the problem...no not really. The problem really lies at the other end of the scale.

Another point to be made is that negotiating those huge salaries... where did it get the industry? At the first hint of problems and BK salaries slashed etc. MGT took the first opportunity available to them to cut the guts out of compensation packages. Much has been said over time about regional pilots ....that if they just wouldnt work for those wages things would be better. I profer the same could be said at any level in this business.... if someone is a 767 CA and he does not feel he is being compensated adequately nothing is keeping him in that position .....except seniority and QOL most likely. There are NO easy answers to these problems.

Listen Carl you are preaching to the choir about wages here.... I left 121 flying twice because of crappy QOL and PAY.... hence why I fly REALLY little planes now... making MORE money and better QOL.

Good luck to all.

HercDriver130

Just wondering Carl... were you for or against the NWA / DAL merger?

Carl Spackler

Really...dude? You can understand my confusion given your post below:

I understand that. You think (like management) that the upper end of the pay scale is the problem. Forget about the success at SWA and UPS and FDX...

Just another example of parroting management's claim that high salaries hurt the industry. 9/11 and p!ss poor management hurt the airlines. Skilled management weathered the storms without cutting salaries.

Actually, I'm not Herc. I'm preaching to a guy who thinks he's in the choir. As long as you believe that the top end of the scale is the problem, you'll continue to undercut the profession and promote the talking points of utterly disgraced management teams.

Trust me dude, you're not part of the choir.

Carl

JungleBus

Oh I'm sure they would if there was a better path to the majors. And don't say military aviation, because the entry requirements are far more stringent and the service commitments much longer than back in the day. The reality is that among civilian pilots, Delta and other majors hire overwhelmingly from the regional airlines. If you can convince DL to hire as many freight dogs and corporate guys as they do regional pilots, you'd quickly see people ditch the regionals for better paying (and more interesting) jobs.

Your first year at NW, didn't you work for far less than your experience justified? (Don't have the 60s or 70s contracts in front of me but know first year pay has been depressed a long, long time). If so, why? Because you knew you'd make up for it in the long run. Effectively with the regionals, the majors have found a way to keep everybody at first year pay / b scale for a much longer time with a less certain payoff.

Carl Spackler

For it.

I've always thought Delta to be a classy outfit with pilots whom I respected.

Carl

Carl Spackler

And until there is a "better" path in your view, you'll continue to undercut the very profession that you seek to join. Glad that makes sense to somebody.

You haven't a clue of what you're talking about. Military aviation has always had the toughest entry requirements. Even during war time.

Yes...for the first year. From that point on, pay increased immediately to levels commensurate with a highly paid professional airline pilot. What's your excuse for staying past the first year?

Carl

johnso29

Ok Carl. Thanks for the correction.

JungleBus

No need to be an a-hole about it Carl, my post wasn't attacking you for your opinion. I was simply stating that it's easy to say we need to get regional pilots to quit undercutting the profession, but until there's a more viable path to the majors, people will continue to fly for less than their skills are worth. You yourself said you did it your first year. I'm not saying it's right. I would like to see it fixed. The truth is that if flight instructing qualified me for a Delta job, I'd go do that again because I was good at it, enjoyed it, and I wasn't undercutting the airline position I hoped to attain some day. Very few regional pilots enjoy flying 50+ seat jets for inferior pay and work rules. Most don't see a viable alternative.

I've always thought you have generally intelligent posts but you've been getting pretty combative on here lately. Pineapple getting ya down?

JungleBus

Also, one clarification since you misinterpreted that sentence of my post. I wasn't saying the military requirements weren't stringent in the past, simply that the military is smaller now, pilots are staying in longer (if you're gonna go to 12 you may as well go to 20...), and there are a far smaller number of pilot slots than there once were; competition is fierce.

It seems to me that military aviation today is best suited for those who want to go into military aviation, not those looking for a good route to the major airlines. That's all I was saying.

tsquare

It is as far as I am concerned...