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My letter of response to Delta union Reps

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My letter of response to Delta union Reps

Old 02-15-2009, 07:40 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by HercDriver130 View Post
This EXACT thought process that so called regional pilots are somehow inferior or less than those who fly at mainline is why mainline and feeder jet carriers will never integrate on any large scale. There is NOW and has always been this air of superiority promulgated by mainline pilots. FACT of the matter is Mainline MGT does not want any large scale integration. FACT is... they want OUT of the domestic business directly... meaning they would prefer that ALL domestic flying or at least the vast majority of it is done by contract or wholly owned carriers. They have been moving in this direction for 20 years ....the train has left the station... going to be real difficult to put that train back in the shed.
I'm not saying I'm inferior..... on the contrary, I don't think so at all I just need time to become a better pilot. BUT, the reason I wrote what I did is this:

Staple: Me, behind all other Delta guys, who have 3,4,5 thousand hours.

Integration: Me somewhere in the middle of the newest pack of Delta guys who go 3,4,5 thousand hours flying, and applied and made it based on those qualifications. All of a sudden there's a guy senior to them with 1000TT. How does that make *any* sense?
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Old 02-15-2009, 08:08 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by cencal83406 View Post
I'm not saying I'm inferior..... on the contrary, I don't think so at all I just need time to become a better pilot. BUT, the reason I wrote what I did is this:

Staple: Me, behind all other Delta guys, who have 3,4,5 thousand hours.

Integration: Me somewhere in the middle of the newest pack of Delta guys who go 3,4,5 thousand hours flying, and applied and made it based on those qualifications. All of a sudden there's a guy senior to them with 1000TT. How does that make *any* sense?
I am not sure of the qualifications of the most recent hires. But when I was hired with NWA in early 96 the average male in our class had over 10,000 TT with around 8000 PIC, and over 7000 turbine with 3 type ratings.

Another way to look at it would be TT as an ALPA member. But if we go this route I should have another 10 years seniority at DAL than I currently enjoy.
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:14 AM
  #83  
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In 96 NWA was a "hot job." You see that designation move around. SWA used to be considered lousy, as did FedEx. Then they became the hot job and Delta looked pretty bad for a while. When I got hired, Delta was my #1 pick over FedEx, AirTran and others.

We can't really rank ourselves that way and it was not a consideration in the merger.

In the past, mergers have roughly gone by paycheck and equipment type. There is no need to complicate that status quo when dealing with the question of a fee for departure provider fling small jets, merging with the branded airline flying large jets. It is the only way to maintain the status quo that makes sense.

Now the merger of two fee for departure carriers is a whole lot more complicated.
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:38 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by HercDriver130 View Post
This EXACT thought process that so called regional pilots are somehow inferior or less than those who fly at mainline is why mainline and feeder jet carriers will never integrate on any large scale. There is NOW and has always been this air of superiority promulgated by mainline pilots. FACT of the matter is Mainline MGT does not want any large scale integration. FACT is... they want OUT of the domestic business directly... meaning they would prefer that ALL domestic flying or at least the vast majority of it is done by contract or wholly owned carriers. They have been moving in this direction for 20 years ....the train has left the station... going to be real difficult to put that train back in the shed.
Herc,

I don't think it's a matter of superiority. I think it is more a matter of career expectations/earnings. A senior regional CA who has no intention of leaving has far less career expectations/earnings then the most jr guy on the mainline list. That really goes for ANY regional pilot who has yet to leave. Regardless of their intentions/desires to leave their respective regional, they aren't there yet. It would be very unfair to do anything more then a staple with fences around the RJs to protect the QOL for the regional lifers. IMHO.
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:43 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by johnso29 View Post
Herc,

I don't think it's a matter of superiority. I think it is more a matter of career expectations/earnings. A senior regional CA who has no intention of leaving has far less career expectations/earnings then the most jr guy on the mainline list. That really goes for ANY regional pilot who has yet to leave. Regardless of their intentions/desires to leave their respective regional, they aren't there yet. It would be very unfair to do anything more then a staple with fences around the RJs to protect the QOL for the regional lifers. IMHO.
100% correct!!!
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Old 02-15-2009, 06:16 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by HercDriver130 View Post
FACT of the matter is Mainline MGT does not want any large scale integration. FACT is... they want OUT of the domestic business directly... meaning they would prefer that ALL domestic flying or at least the vast majority of it is done by contract or wholly owned carriers. They have been moving in this direction for 20 years ....the train has left the station... going to be real difficult to put that train back in the shed.
First fact is correct, no company wants their seniority roster increased 1000 numbers, or 2000 numbers, or 3000 numbers overnight by pilots you did not hire, who do not necessarily meet your qualifications, who you might have turned down in the past and who would add to your benefits and tax costs.

Second fact is questionable. DAL does not want a majority or all of its domestic flying farmed out. If you're going to farm that much out might as well farm out the entire airline and get out of the airline industry all together and we can go around and around on this but whats the point? The truth is, the company can own 76 seat jets that have a CA, FO and 2 FAs that combined probably make what our most junior 88 A makes. If you don't use that to the max of your ability then those who own Deltas purse strings will come calling. Everyone has a boss.

They're playing by the rules to own 76 seaters and have DCI fly them, now we just need the rules committee to meet and change them such that its to our benefits. And that'll only happen if DALPA figures out a way to make it happen. And unfortunately, from what I'm hearing and seeing, some in charge at DALPA would probably rather have DAL pilots furloughed then have anyone on property be forced to fly a small 76 seat jet.

New rule: you cannot fly an aircraft at DCI that has the same seating capacity of any aircraft DAL has ever owned... so the crop dusters sat how many? 1?

Last edited by forgot to bid; 02-15-2009 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:54 PM
  #87  
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Johnson... I agree I am NOT saying that a staple of some sort is not appropriate.... I am saying there are guys ( more than most would admit ) who DO believe that so called regional pilots EN MASS are inferior to them.

Forgot... we will just have to agree to disagree.... I first got into this business in 1992 and have seen the morph from jetstreams and SAABS... to what we see to day at the so called regional carriers. WHAT have the majors being doing the past twenty years... flying less domestic ..MORE international..... and cedding that flying to these contract or wholly owned carriers......and by all indications at least most mainline companies who like more of the 70-90 seat jet flying .... I just think its what they want. I dont like the end result as should no pilot.... but I think if you sit back and really look at the industry over the past 30 years and see what commuters use to fly as far as equipment and routes and what most are flying today......... I mean what is DCI, and UALexpress... etc... in most cases they are medium even some long haul domestic service. Certainly short feeder routes can be found. But much of what the large RJs are being used on is hub to hub ... or hub to large city domestic flying.

Much has been said about "taking it back".... take it back by all means.... but to do so you just might have to take the pilots who fly it as well. If they dont measure up.... time, training, and evaluation will weed them out.
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Old 02-16-2009, 01:04 AM
  #88  
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Why not take back all the flying and start hiring. Bring anything over 50 seats to mainline. Restrict all DCI to shorthaul flying, less than 300NM. You can give preferential hiring to DCI employees, but keep the same standards that are currently in place and hire as usual. No need to "staple" anybody.

The reason we keep hearing "we need a 100 seat airplane" from MGT, but never seeing one that meets "their requirements," is simply the fact that it exist and DCI is flying it. We need to really focus on recapturing this flying leading up to 2012. Write your Reps. Let them know how you feel. Contract negotiations shouldn't start in 2012, they should start NOW with all of us setting the stage for what's coming! It really is right around the corner and will be here and gone before we know.

This is our wake up call. It's 4am and the clock is ticking. WAKE UP!
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Old 02-16-2009, 03:33 AM
  #89  
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I say this...you either want it ...or you dont..... why not recapture all of the flying if that is really want you want. If you leave the DCI network in place you will be in the same boat down the road.
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Old 02-16-2009, 04:07 AM
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Agreed Herc. If you & I were wrong the industry wouldn't be in this mess.
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