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Captains Sullenberger & Haynes

Old 02-22-2009, 07:08 PM
  #21  
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Maybe all of us who have no idea how it would have turned out if we were in charge or if the circumstances would have been different should just analyze every word out of Sully's mouth and every facial expression he makes instead of just being thankful that he was the guy who got the call that day instead of the bitter, old, cranky SOB that we have all had to sit next to at some time or another. Way to take something good, and beat it until we find something bad to talk about. Imagine if a microphone was in your face every time you opened your mouth, and everybody over analyzed everything you had to say. These boards would eventually make every one of us into crazy egomaniacs.

Thanks Sully for doing our job in a way we should all be proud of.
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:21 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Not2fast View Post
Maybe all of us who have no idea how it would have turned out if we were in charge or if the circumstances would have been different should just analyze every word out of Sully's mouth and every facial expression he makes instead of just being thankful that he was the guy who got the call that day instead of the bitter, old, cranky SOB that we have all had to sit next to at some time or another. Way to take something good, and beat it until we find something bad to talk about. Imagine if a microphone was in your face every time you opened your mouth, and everybody over analyzed everything you had to say. These boards would eventually make every one of us into crazy egomaniacs.

Thanks Sully for doing our job in a way we should all be proud of.
So, what you are saying is that the "the bitter, old, cranky SOB that we have all had to sit next to at some time or another" coudn't pull off a water landing on the Hudson river that day?

So, Sully did the job that some of you, or perhaps the person who sits next to you could not do?

That's not exactly confidence inspiring.

Then again, Sully did get his share of grief from some of you at these forums, who thought that there were 5 hands on that side stick when it landed in the Hudson.

I gotta tell ya, some of the stuff I read from some of you 121 guys about Sully, at best, was disgusting. Seriously, some of your egos were so out of check it was not funny.

So, now, some of you woke up, yet you still talk about "the bitter, old, cranky SOB that we have all had to sit next to at some time or another".
I mean, we have folks here, via the posts they have made, who cannot comprehend why Sully took over the controls after the engines quit.

That's sad, very sad.

Frankly, I think Skiles could have greased her on the Hudson too, but I just assume have the pilot with way more experience in type and total to give it a shot. After all, there is a reason why he/she has 4 stripes and the title "captain", although I realize that many of you will not understand that.

Again, some of the things you 121 folks said about Sully in other threads here made me want to vomit. It seems like most of you couldn't deal with his "60 Minutes" interview because he used "I".

Indeed, it took a crew for everyone to survive and get out of the plane, but last time I checked It was just one pilot's hand on the stick, and that got the plane on the river with no immediate fatalities.

It's also a river that I have flown over and sailed out of many times. I live overlooking it too.
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:58 PM
  #23  
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Guys, relax. We dont need to examine every little word and action of Capt Sully. Capt Sully peformed his duty just as every Captain would've. There were plenty of variables that could've changed the outcome ie overcast, wind, rain, departing on a different runway nonetheless; Capt Sully deserves our respect. He's handled all the fame like a true professional and has shed light on many of our concerns like pay, qol, furloughs and mergers.
Capt Sully is right when he said "this used to be a career that people admired and one that our children would strive to achieve. At this point I dont think any of us would want our children to follow in our footsteps".
We pilots need to stick together and not waste time on assumptions. Godspeed.
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:23 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by loubetti View Post
... After all, there is a reason why he/she has 4 stripes and the title "captain", although I realize that many of you will not understand that.
Most of us "121 folks" do understand it - we call it seniority, or the more time on property the better seniority... How do you do it in your Cessna 210? The person who owns the airplane gets 4 stripes?

Originally Posted by loubetti View Post
"...Again, some of the things you 121 folks said about Sully in other threads here made me want to vomit...
Not sure why you're getting so mad, a message forum is so people can ask questions and discuss different issues. Even those issues that you don't like to be discussed.

Apologize for the sarcastic response but you seem to have strong opinions about "some of the 121 folks" for someone who only knows this industry from the private pilot and the flight simulation industry angle (based on your website's profile).

There are literally thousands and thousands of airline pilots out there so it's only natural to see many diverging opinions in this and in other forums.

Last edited by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE; 02-22-2009 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:24 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Luv2Rotate View Post
Guys, relax. We dont need to examine every little word and action of Capt Sully. Capt Sully peformed his duty just as every Captain would've. There were plenty of variables that could've changed the outcome ie overcast, wind, rain, departing on a different runway nonetheless; Capt Sully deserves our respect. He's handled all the fame like a true professional and has shed light on many of our concerns like pay, qol, furloughs and mergers.
Capt Sully is right when he said "this used to be a career that people admired and one that our children would strive to achieve. At this point I dont think any of us would want our children to follow in our footsteps".
We pilots need to stick together and not waste time on assumptions. Godspeed.
Good point and I retract my earlier question.
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:42 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by loubetti View Post
Frankly, I think Skiles could have greased her on the Hudson too, but I just assume have the pilot with way more experience in type and total to give it a shot. After all, there is a reason why he/she has 4 stripes and the title "captain", although I realize that many of you will not understand that.
I don't have a dog in this fight but I'd like to point out that in a seniority-based system, knowledge and experience has less than nothing to do with who is a CA and who isn't. The only reason most CA's are in that position is because they have been there longer. Obviously, there are exceptions. Many FO's choose not to upgrade for a multitude of reasons.

I'm not faulting you for not being in the 121 world but it's hard for someone to understand it unless you've been in it. It's like trying to explain sex to a virgin.

FWIW, Sully made me proud to put on the uniform.
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bloodhound View Post
... I'd like to point out that in a seniority-based system, knowledge and experience has less than nothing to do with who is a CA and who isn't. The only reason most CA's are in that position is because they have been there longer...
...I'm not faulting you for not being in the 121 world but it's hard for someone to understand it unless you've been in it. It's like trying to explain sex to a virgin....
You explained it much better than I did...

Originally Posted by Bloodhound View Post
FWIW, Sully made me proud to put on the uniform.
I want to make it clear that I feel the same way, just like I felt when Capt. Haynes and his crew flew the DC10.

However, the initial remark by ExperimentalAB was a true eye opener to me and I wanted to see if others felt the same way.

In other words that this profession might be doomed once the likes of Haynes and Sully are gone. My contention was and still is that nothing could be further from the truth.

Last edited by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE; 02-22-2009 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:02 AM
  #28  
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Lou all due respect to you and your experience, however at US Airways, when there is a malfunction, per training and the AQP process, the Captain hands over control to the First Officer IE "Your Control" the response is "My control" then the Captain is supposed to reference the QRH for the appropriate ECAM message or fault and run the entire checklist for the affected fault. After it is fixed, if he so determinse he may again resume control of the aircraft if he was the Pilot Flying or may choose to let the FIrst Officer continure the flight to a Landing ..... That is just how I seem to recall the training to have been.... But then again you may want to call this all hear say....
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:14 AM
  #29  
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N850CA, that is true in most cases... however its still the Captain's discretion in regards to who is flying.

In this case, it was an imminent impact. Skiles was fresh off of IOE, so it was more than understandable for Sully to assume control, along with the "I signed for it, I get to wreck it" as well.
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:19 AM
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This happened to me a few years ago when I was the captain on an MD-11. We were sitting number 1 for takeoff, holding short perpendicular to the runway, onto which we'd make a left turn to align (the first officer had an unobstructed view of the final approach.) Anyway, about 3 miles out was a 737, on approach, when the f/o says to me "look at that, his gear is not down." The f/o then, for the next 5 or 10 seconds, kept talking to me about how dumb those guys were to be so close in to the runway without their gear. He (the f/o) started getting animated, when I picked up the mic and broadcast on tower freq "GEAR", at which point the guys landing gear came down. We said nothing else, and they landed and taxied off while we took the runway for our takeoff.

I guess my point for telling this story is that while seniority may not be a perfect indicator of experience, it is overall, a good indicator. That's not to say that there aren't first officers who are more experienced and more mature than the captains they're flying with at the time, but overall (imho), captains are more mature and more experienced than first officers, especially if you look at their experience at a particular airline. Granted, guys on their 2nd and 3rd airline, bring a ton of experience to their new carrier, but for recent experience, at that airline, the captain usually has more.

I believe that there's a majority of airline pilots out there who would have performed as well as Captain Sullenberger did, both captains as well as first officers. And I'm glad of three things: 1) that everyone survived, with no real physical injuries; 2) that Captain Sully represented our profession well; and finally 3) that it wasn't me flying that jet, that day.

JJ
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