Airline Pilot Central Forums - What's going on with the LCC Trial?

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AXE758:

I only hope that the US Aiways pilots as a whole can move forward as a group, though I think alot of damages have been done and its going to be a tough one. With West guys being sued personally, (we don't need to rehash whether they should of or should not have been sued), the name calling from day one by calling the West guys rockies (yes I know the West calls the East names also) and the fact that the West does not trust a majority of what comes out of USAPA is going to be difficult.

I feel your all pilots of US Airways. In the end everyone suffers, not just West or East. I only hope in a few years that all of this will be left behind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper (Post 606226)

What about if you had no intention to vote for the new union, and the new union knew this?

USAPA did only one roadshow - true. And, they left early (or earlier than they had planned too originally, it would seem). However . . .

The meeting was at the airport, allowing maximum attendance from those who had the ability to attend. The reception USAPA received was less than warm (look @ the video on youtube and see for yourself). I don't think more than 2% of the former HP pilots eventually voted for USAPA. Would this # have really changed had USAPA held 10 meetings in PHX or LAS? Honestly, for USAPA to do more than the bare minimum would have been a waste of time for USAPA, considering some of their core campaign promises - nobody out there was going to vote for them anyway. Furthermore, the HP pilots did have the opportunity to attend USAPA organizing meetings in CLT, PHL, DCA, etc. - there's a you tube video of a lone HP pilot attending a CLT meeting, and the atmosphere is much more relaxed, though the difference of opinion on USAPA's goals remains.

Legally, does the reasoning 'it would have been a waste of time to do more than 1 meeting' hold weight (will they even introduce into evidence the reasoning why they didn't do more meetings)? How many meetings do they need to hold to maintain the minimum standard, and where? This is all that is relevant right now.

Good luck to all of the US Airways pilots, regardless of which the side of the fence you are on this issue.

My thoughts are that USAPA had no intention of representing the West guys and this is why they had only one meeting. The West guys new they were getting the screws put to them and USAPA was aware of this. My only point was if USAPA had indeed just wanted ALPA out and was eager to represent the interests of the West then they would have had more meetings. This one meeting makes their court case a little tougher in my opinion. I have no dog in the fight and I hope this dispute can be settled to allow the two groups to put this behind them.

Regardless what you may think, there's a good reason why no one ever wanted to merge with the east pilot group, we got unlucky and got stuck with that anchor back east. Think twice on how this will affect all pilots not just usair, if these guys get away with this, in the future the larger group can and will just change unions and renegotiate your seniority list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactiboss (Post 607007)

in the future the larger group can and will just change unions and renegotiate your seniority list.

I'm not too sure about that. There was a small faction at DAL-S that was not happy with the final outcome and advocated changing unions ala LCC, but the greater majority saw the cluster that you folks have and wisely didn't listen to them. The East-West issue really created a roadmap of how not to consummate a merger. I wish you well in the future, but I feel that the well is poisoned. It will take some big thinking to overcome the fallout of this debacle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob (Post 607066)

If usapa get's away with it, then precedent is set, there is nothing stopping any group that is larger from forming their own union and imposing their will on the minority after the fact. That is exactly what is happening right now, a union negotiating only for the east pilots with the west shackled and gagged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactiboss (Post 607243)

That's what I'm saying. The precedent has already been set. THe difference is that that now if anyone trys it, they have the piosoned workplace of LCC as an end result if they are dumb enough to pull the trigger. That is what happened at DL. Enough people did not want a repeat of the LCC experiment to put an end to it. However, if a pilot group is hell bent on career suicide, then whether USAPA wins or loses, they'll still go through with it.