Management Pilots...
 

...what exactly are they? Someone mentioned them in another post of mine, but didn't really go into detail on the position. What are their other duties other than flying? What are the wages like? More/less than the average pilot? Which airlines have management pilots?

Thanks,

fly straight in

No such thing as management pilots.......Those in management dont know how to fly. They go to Harvard or Yale, become lawyers, and learn how get get very rich while intercoursing the employees who actually work for a living: be it bag smashers, gate agents, pilots, F/A's, etc.

onslaught
 

:eek: I'm looking forward to the forthcoming replies...

Management pilots include all chief pilots from all airlines. They are chosen by the company as representatives of management to the pilot group.

I believe what you may be referring to are management pilot positions that are hired from "outside" the rank and file of line pilots. These folks are normally hired off the street. UPS hires "management pilots" for training positions and other various positions that their rank and file don't want (better let a Brown guy elaborate more on this).

At ASA, our company Chief Pilot was hired off the street (outside of the company).....

It's not that UPS pilots don't want to volunteer for these positions - you are either a line pilot or a management pilot. Mgt pilots do not get seniority numbers. They cannot become line pilots w/o starting all over at the bottom of the list or even reinterviewing. Line pilots that become mgt pilots forfeit their seniority number. There is no going between the two lists. We do have union line pilots that work in the training center. They do sim training, and our IOE guys are line pilots. The mgt pilots do all the PC's, line checks, checkrides, etc. Understand that UPS's mgt structure is TOTALLY different from any other airline. Our mgt pilots are an "airline within an airline." Not very efficient if you ask me...

Well Crawdawg.. I was a management pilot (check airman) for a major airline. Nope.. didn't go to Harvard or Yale but did know how to fly. Solo in a J3 Cub at 16, quit High School to enter Air Force enlisted. Did my 4 years during the cold war. Oh yeah, I'm 72 years old. Worked for FAA as a controller, instructed during time off, owned a herd of airplanes, hired by the major airline starting with DC-6/7, then BAC 111, B-727, DC10, turned Capt., Airbus A300-600R, then Check airman 757-767 and MD-11 Domestic, Atlantic, Pacific and ENJOYED working with regular line pilots doing everything I could for them. Also instructed in simulators 707, 727, DC10. Obviously you may have had some bad experiences along the way but please don't label all management as "bad guys". We all love to fly.. try to remember that.

Management pilots at CAL are individuals who were hired as pilots and at some point accepted a management position from the company. At CAL these management types retain their seniority number and it is not unusual to have management pilots return to line flying. Management pilots include: Chief pilots, Asst chief pilots, Fleet managers and our VP of flight ops is a pilot on our seniority list. I don't consider check airman and sim instructors as management pilots. In my opinion most line pilots see fellow pilots who accept management positions as sell outs and it is difficult for them to ever be seen as one of the guys again. I remember once walking into our crewroom where perhaps 40 to 50 pilots were hanging out. To my amazement their was one pilot off to himself - not really fitting in with the guys and yup, you guessed it, a former management pilot nobody wanted to be around. They are paid a premium to manage and how much of a premium depends on what or who they manage. I am fortunate in that I have no desire to go there and enjoy the feeling of setting the brakes and going home. There are some good guys in those jobs but it seems the good guys never last - they speak up for the pilots and are then replaced with those more willing to hold the company line. My thought is; If you want to be a pilot, be a pilot. If you want to manage, then be an office person. It is hard to do both well!

Message for ddbbjj
 

ddbbjj, what did you think of the DC-6 versus the DC-7? Were the DC-7 engines as cantankerous as they're made out to have been?

Thanks!

Not all Management Pilots are Dirt Bags
 

Hey dawg52, I can't believe I am going to say this, but not all management pilots are dirt bags. It's just the good ones, don't seem to last long. They either retire, quit or go back to the line. DS in HNL, was a prefect example. A good pilot, a good manager who tired to protect the line pilot from the HQ BS. ;)

Way back when management pilots that were check airmen were used to manage trouble makers off the property when career day came. I am sure with the atmosphere in the industry that practice is no longer used.

Our new hire class was the last class to be trained on the DC6/7 as Co-pilot/Flight Engineer. Those were the last days of seat swapping (FO/FE). When the 6's were retired (about 7 months later) we all moved up to copilot in various aircraft depending on where you were based. I went to the BAC111, others to the L-188, some to the 727, etc. Our DC6/7 FE rating just faded away. The 6 was fun, low & slow where everyone looked out the windows to watch the towns slide by. American only had 1 DC7 left (freighter) and I heard some interesting stories about those cantankerous but powerful engines. That rapidly fading era was a memory never to be forgotten.

When I went through new hire school at UAL in early 1967, everyone had to go through an abbreviated F/O school on the DC-6/DC-7. The program was cancelled about 6 months after I got on the line.

The school had a number of DC6/DC-7s used strictly for this new hire requirement and the airplanes were only maintained to part 91, so you can imagine their condition.

The new hire F/O training was split about 50-50 between the 6 and the 7. I do recall the DC-7 as having more get up and go than the DC-6.

After that portion of training was over - maybe 3-4 weeks worth - the entire class was assigned as DC-6 flight engineers. The actual domicile assignments to EWR, DCA, ORD, DTW, SFO and SEA were done about 2 weeks before graduation. I went to EWR as I lived on Long Island. The most senior guy got EWR and so did the most junior.

Funny, a class or two after mine was over 50% jet awards. B-727 and Caravelle.

The flight engineer training and line flying was all DC-6. The last DC-7 had been removed from line ops several months before I started.

Came on the line in April 1967, flew two DC-6 S/O trips and then went to 727 S/O school.

Times were different. :)

Crewdawg52.. I should have explained "management pilots" a little further. There are two types of "check airmen" in our company. There is a "L" type (Line Check Airman) who has always been a line pilot. The L type checks-out new captains on the line, captains and co-pilots that require Pacific, Atlantic, Carribian or South/Latin America orientation/qualification. L type also does annual line checks, etc. The L type IS, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN ON THE SENIORITY LIST from day one. Next is the "X" type. He instructs and has FAA blessing to give rating rides in both Aircraft and Simulators. He is also on the seniority list and was hired just like every other pilot in the system. The L and X type receive the same pay as a line pilot for the equipment flown.
So... before you blow the horn, check the traffic ;-)

Thanks for the info guys! Seems like it varies from airline to airline. ;) :)

Management pilots at FedEx are stooges for management. They come from the line, get higher pay (a lot), do anything and everything management demands they do, maintain their seniority number, have very little power to help line pilots when someone needs help or guidance with a corporate shoe clerk who's messing with a line pilot (expense report audit department), are too quick to discipline pilots when management demands action, use discipline to punish union participation (captains who refused non-pilot jumpseaters in the cockpit) but fail to use it on pilots who deseve it (Dick Cotton), and are sent back to the line when they side with a line pilot.

Guess you know which side of the fence I'm on.