73, good response. I also review the paperwork on Sabre. But the JP* is not always ready. I'll review the JPD of the previous days flight. That does not tell me Notams or anything significant. Then, as you know it's get out to the aircraft, put on the vest, set everything up and then if there's time I can go thru the 1/4" stack of dot matrix printed messages and notams and wx package.
In the past i've sent emails to request new Sabre codes for FO's and FB's. Yes imagine that! It would include everything but BS J8's and weather verbage outlooks. I would print it out and bam off to security.
If the idea of a HF class that continues to let crews fly the Atlantic where the FB only has a taxi chart for the destination airport is suitable CRM, then by all means the Ancestor worship is working fine here at AA.
I'm not based in DFW, In the emails and phone calls that I make I am probably just a loud mouth co-pilot in Miami.
I am not some disatisfied FO. Here's what I am, i'm motivated and in touch with safety commitees. In the future you will see me on the training commitees and safety (CRM- yes, I will push for that until I retire).
Also, the sim-p's are too old. (there i said it) Last march my sim-pilot instructor was 79 years old. There was no 2 hour pre-sim brief. It was 1 hour of how he flew for Brannif.
I followed that up with 7 phone calls and 4 e-mails. I had to be careful as not to be age discriminatory in anything I said or wrote.
Same checkride, my CA called in sick. My seat filler CA was a 72 yr old sim-pilot that also NEVER flew for American Airlines. Also, same checkride, in walks real FAA and obviously he is over 65 years old.
There is alot of stuff that can and needs to be changed at AA.
But my whole point here is CRM, and it starts with sharing the paperwork. And I will be a jerk if I have to ask or state 3 times every flight "Where is the paperwork?" "Is there a reason you do not want me to see the notams?"
7576

If you're convincing me never to fly at AA, you've done a good job.

Admittedly, this WAS an accident that need not have happened. Any idiot who attmpts to land at an airport with a severe thunderstorm IN PROGRESS (within the airport boundary to boot) and windshear warnings occuring produced by convectivity (x wind of 30-45 knots).......well, what can you say ?

It should be noted that this is not a slight on AA or it's pilots, but it proves that poor judgement can kill just as fast as complacency or inexperience.

I'm SHOCKED that AA is so far "behind the times". How can CRM be emphasized so strongly at Eagle and be so absent at AA ?

If you get time please send me a PM on Eagles CRM. I am/will continue to push to get CRM at AA. I've talked to numerous UAL pilots about CLR.
I do know the industry standard "This is an unsafe operation, GO Around!"
But there are people that do not know this. There are CA's and FO's that just try to salvage the worst situations, or even a bad approach since it's always worked out in the past.
Thank you for anything you can send me. It'd be awesome to be able to tell my Supervisors "Hey, Eagle is way better than us on CRM"
Sincerely,
7576

Anyone else pile on this thread. How do you use CRM to unlock the other pilot?
Humor is the best, and I (we) do say things like "Oh, Yeah this is gonna look good on FOQUA!"

This is what this site is about. Maybe even this deserves it's own thread!
7576

Additionally, I am not bashing my own airline. There is tons of room for improvement though. Perhaps at other airlines also.

I feel compelled to speak about this just like aa73.

7576FO,

I don't know how you have developed some of your attitudes but IMHO you should conduct an assessment of whether you fulfill all of your duties and responsibilities in an AA cockpit. Our duties are spelled out in our AA manuals and I have never found any problem with AA CA's preventing an FO from exercising his duties. In fact, I find the opposite. It's so easy for an AA FO to sign in, preflight and go that I constantly have to force myself to review each preflight item, checklist item, switch position, Captain decision..... How many times has a Captain briefed you "Let's back each other up"? I hear it all the time.

I try to look at everything the Captain does and offer backup. If I find a mistake, I point it out and usually the CA thanks me. If I disagree with a Captain's decision I point it out. Sometimes they then change their decision, sometimes they don't, it's still their aircraft. If the decision affects safety or my ticket, I stick to my guns to the point of confrontation (very rare). If I had "seen" 50 knots taxi speed from my AA cockpit (we're not SW) on a parallel taxiway at MIA I would have advised the CA to slow down and if I felt strongly about it I would have applied brakes on my side of the cockpit. If that developed into a confrontation that caused a return to the gate, I'd have been more than happy to have filed the paperwork with the company and the FAA that the CA was jeopardizing safety and scaring his FO. Do you think the FAA would side with the CA that 50 knot taxi speeds are OK? Did you confront the CA about his speed or even file an ASAP report about the incident you saw?

I don't share your experience with CA's I fly with at AA. Most accept input from their FO's readily and opt for the most conservative course of action. I agree, this isn't emphasized in our version of a CRM course but it is the experience I've had on the line. You seem to realize you need to be more assertive in the cockpit. I agree. Sometimes confrontation is healthy.

I do agree our CRM course is a waste of time. It's really nothing more than another management attempt at propaganda to try to influence pilot behavior towards their hidden agenda. They spend as much time on customer service items as cockpit management items in our "Human Factors" training. What a joke.

And that proves exactly why you are at the same risk flying on ANY airline, not just AA. ALL airlines have had accidents just like LIT at some point or another. No matter how good the CRM program, training, cockpit culture, if you have a mission hacker who stretches his luck, it's gonna happen. And last I checked, ALL airlines have the percentage minority who are just like that AA CA.

7576 and Eagle driver... Great post and thread. These types of debate go a long way towards safety. P.s. I am flying through MIA all this month and next, will keep an eye out for ya.

Eaglefly. Understand that CRM exists at AA just like other airlines. It is just named differently. We just need to redistribute some minor stuff in the cockpit between PF/PNF. But everything else is very much comparable with most US airlines. Also understand that 7576 was venting and overdramatizing a little. He brings up a lot of the stuff that bugs me as well.

Yes I was venting, and yes overdramatizing a little.
7576

I have to say that even at the airline I worked with in the past the CRM training was poor. I think it goes far beyond just AA.