Wow......I guess Bernie Madoff must be quite an idol to you, right? If screwing people to get money is okay, then so be it, right? What these guys did was wrong, plain and simple. If it was okay, we wouldn't be responding to this thread. Why someone would want to get a divorce so they could pay their "ex" a nice lump sum and make their life nice and comfortable is beyond me. I haven't flown with too many pilots who were so willing to give up their lump sums to someone who supposedly made their lives hell. :rolleyes:

Money is not being taken from the pocket of fellow participants of a retirement plan. It does not make a difference an in-service distribution is made, or actual retirement is reached. Whatever the benefits accrued to that date time belongs to the participant.

In the case of a defined contribution, which is a tax deferred savings plan, it’s simple, monies will be continue to be contributed at the normal rate as if no in-service distribution had been made.

In the case of a defined benefit, the lump sum equivalent will be adjusted to reflect any in-service distribution to ensure that no unjust enrichment is experienced by the participant.

In either case participants are not being deprived of their benefits whether accrued or accumulated.

Ultimately, the responsibility rests on the shoulders of the plan administrators and trustees of the fund trust to ensure that distribution are determined and made in accordance with provisions in the plan document.

Isn't this THEIR OWN money. How can it be stealing/cheating. And why not take advantage of any loophole to get out while you can before the company finds their own loophole, files BK etc...? I will believe I'm going to see A fund money when the check clears (just like SS).

More power to them.

There was a story on GMA about this issue this morning. As usual they got about half the fact straight...some cheerleader for PBGC was on touting how safe that was ... blah blah then at the very end, OBTW, you are only covered to $54,000 -- small detail there-- a drop in the bucket for most retirment funds.

Obtaining "your" money by fraudulent means is a crime. Sorry, but there is no other way to see it. I'm curious to know what these CAL pilot's date-of-hire was. ;) It looks like I'll move up 9 numbers.

Actually, it is a pool of all the pilot's money. If a pension is underfunded and gets terminated (can only happen in bankruptcy, no not likely for CAL anytime soon), then most pilots get reduced benefits from the pool. If some pilots, using fraudulent means, get 100% of their benefits, it directly impacts the rest of the pilots in the pool. So while the money in the pension plan belongs to the pilots, if it is underfunded and you get 100% of your own benefit, you are taking from your fellow pilots.

I know a couple and they were "old" Continental (pre-1983).

Uh, beg to differ but, there are other ways to see it. How is it fraudulent? The rules says if you get divorced then you are allowed to withdraw assets, and thats what they did.
Would it be equally as "fraudulent" if the company declares BK and your money is now worthless, when the company underfunds the fund / it underperforms and goes insolvent --but hey PBGC will cover up to $54,000 so no worries, when the government decides who can have how much pension and your over the limit.

It's all a friggin ponzi scheme anyways. Good luck.

How is this different than early retirement and taking lump sum (assuming that is offered). It is MY money, I should be able to access it whenever I want withtin the rules of the fund -- which is what they did.

Not their issue that ithe fund is underfunded -- that is the companies and the governments deal.

Its quite simple. You are correct if the divorce is legitimate. Courts do not recognize a divorce as legitimate in this case. The divorce itself is a fraud and that makes the distribution a fraud. If you marry someone so they can get a green card then the green card is invalid. If you marry someone so they can have health care benefits and not for the traditional reasons they that is a fraud.
Divorce fraud happens all the time for many reasons. Usually to try and shelter money in business frauds. The courts have several test to decide if its a fraud. Did the couple represent themselves as divorced to family and friends? Did they seperate all finances? Was a new residence for one party purchased or leased. (Moving apart)
The simple fact is if the divorce was a fraud then the distribution was a fraud.

The big thing in a court of law is intent. These guys had the intent to fraud from the beggining with the lawyer who did this at another airline as well. At least this is the charge. He is in the heat of battle for this as well. All his clients that filed for divorce magically remarried.