|
Congress Just SCREWED you (again)
Say hello to foreign investment and rasing the ownership cap. Welcome Virgin and Ryan - for US pilots: your airline "career" just ended.
************************************************** ********************************************** WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Congress has agreed not to hold up a Bush administration proposal aimed at attracting foreign investment to U.S. airlines, despite security concerns among some lawmakers, officials said on Thursday. Lawmakers negotiating emergency war spending and hurricane relief legislation have agreed to drop language from a bill that stipulates delaying the airline proposal for a year, House and Senate aides said. The language was the central obstacle to the proposal. The decision cleared the way for the Transportation Department to finalize the change as early as this summer. It also keeps on track a tentative aviation agreement between U.S. and European Union negotiators to further open up transatlantic service. A spokesman for the agency said transportation planners will "continue to move forward" with the proposal, which was introduced last November and updated several weeks ago to address congressional concerns. The ownership law limits overseas investment to a maximum of 25 percent voting stock and little or no foreign influence on operating decisions, conditions that have discouraged foreigners from taking an interest U.S. carriers over the years, with a few exceptions. The Transportation Department and other proponents say changing the restrictions on control are overdue to help an industry where four big airlines have fallen into bankruptcy since 2002 and high costs and losses continue to define much of the business. They contend that giving foreigners influence over pricing, scheduling, fleet plans and other operating issues for their stake of up to 25 percent could expand the pool of investors in U.S. airlines, introduce new competition and enhance partnerships. Previous attempts to ease the restrictions have withered on Capitol Hill and current congressional objections centered on national security concerns, which were sharpened by the Dubai Ports controversy this year. Some lawmakers also objected to the potential impact foreign investment would have on labor unions and American jobs in general. |
An open skies agreement with the EU would be great news for UPS pilots.
|
Originally Posted by Browntail
An open skies agreement with the EU would be great news for UPS pilots.
|
Me...........
|
That BT
That Browntail, he is so cool. He reminds me of the Fonz.
SkyHigh |
Congress always "Just screws us" I wonder if they have a cigarette after they're done?
|
Originally Posted by Browntail
An open skies agreement with the EU would be great news for UPS pilots.
Former BWR - current Bus Driver |
Browntail couldn't be more wrong. Foreign investment works both ways and legally kills scope. If UPS can buy 49% of the Pakistani UPS where, will future growth be? (3 seconds to think....... ) Remember, nothing within the "Global Economy" is good for us blue collar guys, even rich UPS drivers.
|
ask any merchant marine from the US or europe what foreing ownership did to them.
if foreing ownership is allowed, UPS or XCY AIR, can transfer certificates to bangladesh, were unions are not legal and you IPA goes to ****. Furthermore, it can hire rusian pilots at $30 /hour to do all the long haul international fligths, and when cabotage is approved, they can do domestic also. bye bye IPA and bye bye your job. think it can't happen? it happened to the merchant marines in the US and EU years ago. this is the beggining. full ownership will follow, together with cabotage. PS: you won't see any of the new intra-EU flying as it will be done mostly by contractors? think not?.....keep dreaming. |
It really is amazing that people still buy into the the "global economy" BS The only people to do well with a global economy are the top brass, and for a very short term some stockholders. Everyone else gets screwed. "Yep I lost my job, but I saved 10 cents on the widget at Wallmart"
Just try and name once instance that selling off the US and its companies offshore has been good or even not harmful to US workers. |
People like browntail and brownwhalerider
Use common sense...this will be bad for us...I promise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
You are wrong on all accounts about UPS. The pax guys are probably screwed, but then again, they are already screwed. UPS has stated that they will turn over all flying currently done by contractors that would be legal under an open skies agreement.
|
It must be nice to be delusional
Originally Posted by Browntail
You are wrong on all accounts about UPS. The pax guys are probably screwed, but then again, they are already screwed. UPS has stated that they will turn over all flying currently done by contractors that would be legal under an open skies agreement.
Look beyond the hub, bub. we are all affected by events off our own property. Nobody lives or works in a bubble, I don't care how many planes UPS buys for cash, they (UPS) will pay as little for your services and contract out as much as they can legally and contractually can . By the way, good luck with your negotiations :confused: |
One thing great about Browntail is how (everyday) he proves how little brains (it must take) to fly.
He's too emotional. He must have wanted to fly people really bad at one point. |
Actually we are flying all the intra europe trips we can legally fly except for one for that one, the EB signed a side letter letting UPS contract it out.
|
Originally Posted by dckozak
One thing great about Browntail is how (everyday) he proves how little brains (it must take) to fly. If UPS wanted to it could be flying much of its inta Europe now, FedEx does. Is an open sky agreement going to change that?? nope. Between boasting about UPS's market position and financial strength, Browntail wines about how lousy UPS treats it pilots. Is that going to change?? Is open sky good for the pilots profession in general?? Are UPS's pilot wage and benefit's affected by the industry at large?? Maybe not, their UPS pilots) holding out for the "industry standard" pay and bennie's, just you wait, its coming any year now.
Look beyond the hub, bub. we are all affected by events off our own property. Nobody lives or works in a bubble, I don't care how many planes UPS buys for cash, they (UPS) will pay as little for your services and contract out as much as they can legally and contractually can .
Originally Posted by dckozak
By the way, good luck with your negotiations :confused:
|
browntaIL and foxhunter must be drinking jamacan kool-aid
do not forget that just like you could provide service from shangai to beijing, so can some foreing airline provide service from memphis to lax. you really think Fred won't open a wholly own airline in sri lanka and take away flying from you? he already does it with tradewinds.
you really think most rusian or any 2nd world country pilot gives a crap about scabbibg you out of a job?:rolleyes: this is the begginig of full foreing ownership and cabotage. you willl not have a job if those two scenarios occur. you will go on strike when Fred refuses to give you your flying back and is being done by some foreing entity and it will be a fiasco worse than the eastern one.:eek: browntail, UPS says you will be doing all the intraeurope flying forever and ever and you really believe what those really honest guys running things say??? I tell you what, I can sell you a bridge really cheap and you can charge everyone who uses it. I'm selling it because I want to retire. the bridge is in San Francisco and is called "the golden gate" . is very profitable ,but, like I said, ,I want to retire. only $3mil, it must be a bargain for you since you are making so much money as a UPS piot and will be making so much moore when you get a new contract:p |
Originally Posted by greedyairlineexec
do not forget that just like you could provide service from shangai to beijing, so can some foreing airline provide service from memphis to lax. you really think Fred won't open a wholly own airline in sri lanka and take away flying from you? he already does it with tradewinds.
you really think most rusian or any 2nd world country pilot gives a crap about scabbibg you out of a job?:rolleyes: this is the begginig of full foreing ownership and cabotage. you willl not have a job if those two scenarios occur. you will go on strike when Fred refuses to give you your flying back and is being done by some foreing entity and it will be a fiasco worse than the eastern one.:eek: browntail, UPS says you will be doing all the intraeurope flying forever and ever and you really believe what those really honest guys running things say??? I tell you what, I can sell you a bridge really cheap and you can charge everyone who uses it. I'm selling it because I want to retire. the bridge is in San Francisco and is called "the golden gate" . is very profitable ,but, like I said, ,I want to retire. only $3mil, it must be a bargain for you since you are making so much money as a UPS piot and will be making so much moore when you get a new contract:p You are right, I will be making a whole lot more as a UPS pilot with our new contract. Our new contract will guarantee the flying to the IPA. If UPS renigs for any reason, then a grievance and even more money in my pocket in addition to the flying. Since the pax guys sold out for code sharing, your concerns are valid. But with UPS and probably so FedEx, our scope language will prevent management from double breasting in any theater around the globe. |
Congress just screwed you (again)
Just remember, it all comes down to capitalism. If UPS can get a better deal from contractors than from the IPA, they will do it. Wouldn't you??
|
Browntail, you make me feel real good about my job...but, open skies will not help us! It is only a matter of time before our cargo pay goes to crap!
|
That's what ABX thought too. They are real close to signing for a raise on top of their $239/hr. They are an ACMI carrier.
|
This could mean the end to the USA based airline system. The same thing happened to the US shipping industry. Today, ships are based overseas and the crew is primarily South island or third world country citizens. The Officers are Dutch or English and other first worlders (Look I made up a word like GW Bush).
I can imagine an industry where all crew are foreign nationals except the captain. The captain could also be replaced but the airlines may not want an English language challenged captain talking to the pax. For all of our sakes, I hope this takes 30 years to happen. Time will tell. |
I agree this legislation will be bad for the U.S. Airline pilot in the long term. The cargo guys are a bit delusional to think that there won't be any outsourcing. All one has to do is look at Cathay Pacific and Dragonair to see that outsourcing from higher paying jobs can and will happen.
Wait a second, Cathay has outsourced their cargo flying to U.S. pilots based in the USA. Those U.S. based pilots earn much less than an "A" or "B" scale Cathay pilot. Same with Dragonair Cargo. Interesting huh ? Those sneaky Japanese have outsourced pax flying to U.S. pilots based in Honolulu. Did they do it because they felt bad about Pearl Harbor? No, I think they did it because U.S. pilots are lower cost. :cool: Russian pilots who speak decent English have already left Russia and work for the likes of Korean, Emirates, Vietnam, etc. They make pretty good coin doing so. I doubt they'll sign on at some crap third world airline for lower pay. That is provided the third world airline could get approval from the FAA to fly to the USA. India and China have such a severe pilot shortage that they are hiring Americans, Europeans, Russian, etc to fly their jets. Average Captain pay in India on the A320 and 737NG is almost exactly what it is at U.S. legacy carriers, $10,000/mo. So, no the sky is not falling yet. Just thought I'd interject these points into the discussion. Typhoonpilot |
Originally Posted by greedyairlineexec
do not forget that just like you could provide service from shangai to beijing, so can some foreing airline provide service from memphis to lax. you really think Fred won't open a wholly own airline in sri lanka and take away flying from you? he already does it with tradewinds.
you really think most rusian or any 2nd world country pilot gives a crap about scabbibg you out of a job?:rolleyes: this is the begginig of full foreing ownership and cabotage. you willl not have a job if those two scenarios occur. you will go on strike when Fred refuses to give you your flying back and is being done by some foreing entity and it will be a fiasco worse than the eastern one. browntail, UPS says you will be doing all the intraeurope flying forever and ever and you really believe what those really honest guys running things say??? I tell you what, I can sell you a bridge really cheap and you can charge everyone who uses it. I'm selling it because I want to retire. the bridge is in San Francisco and is called "the golden gate" . is very profitable ,but, like I said, ,I want to retire. only $3mil, it must be a bargain for you since you are making so much money as a UPS piot and will be making so much moore when you get a new contract there are 14 spelling errors, --can you spot them?? |
TP,
you hit the nail on the head with your post. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the American pilots that are the low ballers. Just look at our scumbag regional pay system that somehow makes it okay to fly a 70 pax jet as an FO for $20/hr. We have guys triping over each other to do to boot. You won't see that crap anywhere else in the world. Heck even our Canadian friends start their RJ guys in the high 30's to low 40's. The threat of being replaced by 3rd World pilots is bogus because those countries are short pilots because no one can afford to get their ratings and those jobs are being outsourced to the rest of the world, heck a lot of Brits, Aussies, and Americans are enjoying employement thanks to that shortage. Global investment won't change that fact at all. xtwapilot |
Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot
I agree this legislation will be bad for the U.S. Airline pilot in the long term. The cargo guys are a bit delusional to think that there won't be any outsourcing. All one has to do is look at Cathay Pacific and Dragonair to see that outsourcing from higher paying jobs can and will happen.
Wait a second, Cathay has outsourced their cargo flying to U.S. pilots based in the USA. Those U.S. based pilots earn much less than an "A" or "B" scale Cathay pilot. Same with Dragonair Cargo. Interesting huh ? Those sneaky Japanese have outsourced pax flying to U.S. pilots based in Honolulu. Did they do it because they felt bad about Pearl Harbor? No, I think they did it because U.S. pilots are lower cost. :cool: Russian pilots who speak decent English have already left Russia and work for the likes of Korean, Emirates, Vietnam, etc. They make pretty good coin doing so. I doubt they'll sign on at some crap third world airline for lower pay. That is provided the third world airline could get approval from the FAA to fly to the USA. India and China have such a severe pilot shortage that they are hiring Americans, Europeans, Russian, etc to fly their jets. Average Captain pay in India on the A320 and 737NG is almost exactly what it is at U.S. legacy carriers, $10,000/mo. So, no the sky is not falling yet. Just thought I'd interject these points into the discussion. Typhoonpilot |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:56 PM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands