Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Major
The Delta "wind check" >

The Delta "wind check"

Notices
Major Legacy, National, and LCC

The Delta "wind check"

Old 10-09-2009, 07:34 PM
  #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
SilkySmooth's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: CR7/9 Left
Posts: 101
Default The Delta "wind check"

OK, guys, I'm trying to be serious.

Why do Delta pilots routinely ask for a wind check? Is it a procedural requirement? Does it have to do with the particular aircraft you're flying? Perhaps some type of limitational requirement? Is it just an old military habit? The rest of us smile every time you guys as for a "wind check," but if there's a good reason, I'd be curious to hear what it is. Enlighten me!
SilkySmooth is offline  
Old 10-09-2009, 07:39 PM
  #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Ralphie's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Moved up to the M88 from the 767
Posts: 193
Default

Didn't know we did that any more than anyone else. Doubt there's any reason but the higher percentage of anal, controlling military types who think it matters beyond the gust adjustment or crosswind limits.

Nice feeders by the way.

Last edited by Ralphie; 10-09-2009 at 07:40 PM. Reason: Salma
Ralphie is offline  
Old 10-09-2009, 07:43 PM
  #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
hoserpilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: maddoggy dog
Posts: 1,026
Default

Because Selma Hayek takes the wind out of our sails.

Or because we have wind additives to our approach speed due to gusts and crosswinds.
hoserpilot is offline  
Old 10-09-2009, 07:56 PM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 127
Default

Originally Posted by hoserpilot View Post
Because Selma Hayek takes the wind out of our sails.

Or because we have wind additives to our approach speed due to gusts and crosswinds.
Do you mean that you have wind additives to your "ref" speeds? Or do you add to your approach speed as well? I'm pretty sure everyone add wind corrections to ref speed.
Ratherbeoffwork is offline  
Old 10-09-2009, 08:04 PM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
KC10 FATboy's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,094
Default

Originally Posted by SilkySmooth View Post
OK, guys, I'm trying to be serious.

Why do Delta pilots routinely ask for a wind check? Is it a procedural requirement? Does it have to do with the particular aircraft you're flying? Perhaps some type of limitational requirement? Is it just an old military habit? The rest of us smile every time you guys as for a "wind check," but if there's a good reason, I'd be curious to hear what it is. Enlighten me!
What type of plane do you fly? Do you have any procedural wind or gust additives?

You want to when or why I would ask for a windcheck?

When my navigational display shows a 15 knot tailwind on final yet tower is calling 10 knots headwind down the runway ---- or the ATIS I just received called winds 30018G26 (for example this morning in Austin) but tower said 300/9 cleared to land --- I become very suspicious of what they tell me.
KC10 FATboy is offline  
Old 10-09-2009, 09:13 PM
  #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
AV8ER13's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: NWA 747-200 SO
Posts: 129
Default

I am not a military guy, just someone that likes to know what I can expect. How many times have you seen an ATIS be off or old, just like to think a head.

Nice pic!
AV8ER13 is offline  
Old 10-09-2009, 09:56 PM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
SilkySmooth's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: CR7/9 Left
Posts: 101
Default

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy View Post
What type of plane do you fly? Do you have any procedural wind or gust additives?
CRJ200; "A speed additive of five kts. is the minimum factor, and ten kts. is the maximum. Vref factor is adjusted for wind gust by dividing the gust factor by two, and adding it to Vref."

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy View Post
When my navigational display shows a 15 knot tailwind on final yet tower is calling 10 knots headwind down the runway
So at what point do you quit believing the tower? In other words, when do you make the decision to go around should the winds exceed limitations? Would you land if the tower reported a 10kt headwind even though your PFD indicated a 15kt tailwind?

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy View Post
---- or the ATIS I just received called winds 30018G26 (for example this morning in Austin) but tower said 300/9 cleared to land --- I become very suspicious of what they tell me.
How do you guys determine your Vref factor? And how much different would it be given the stated conditions?

I guess my question really is, "If the conditions are not likely to be rapidly changing, is it really necessary to clog up the frequency by asking for a wind check? (If you listen, you'll notice that the tower will typically annouce any significant changes in wind speed and or direction) And even if the conditions are rapidly changing, who's to say that they're going to be the same 30 to 60 seconds from now when you land? At some point, don't you have to make your best assessment and go with it?"
SilkySmooth is offline  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:12 PM
  #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 108
Default

I remember a few years ago it was somebody asking why AA pilots (not Delta) always ask for a wind check. He received the same responses. Someone automatically responded about ex-military guys being too anal. Someone else tried to explain exactly why they did it. Many reasons, some valid, some maybe not. If the original post was intended to learn technique I applaud your desire to better yourself. There are many valid reasons to ask for winds on short final.

If you don't want a wind check, don't ask for one but there's no need to ridicule someone else for asking about information over the runway of intended landing. I don't know too many areas in aviation where having too much information will hurt you. Maybe the guys who refuse to ask for wind updates think it's not macho and their coolness factor diminishes. Most of the exceptional pilots I know save the coolness test for the bar and want as much information as possible when flying. The weak pilots are the ones who think they need no help to handle it all with one eye closed, one engine out and a worthless copilot. Like Clint said, "A man's got ta know his limitations."
EagleDriver is offline  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:20 PM
  #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
KC10 FATboy's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,094
Default

Originally Posted by SilkySmooth View Post
So at what point do you quit believing the tower? In other words, when do you make the decision to go around should the winds exceed limitations? Would you land if the tower reported a 10kt headwind even though your PFD indicated a 15kt tailwind?

How do you guys determine your Vref factor? And how much different would it be given the stated conditions?

I guess my question really is, "If the conditions are not likely to be rapidly changing, is it really necessary to clog up the frequency by asking for a wind check? (If you listen, you'll notice that the tower will typically annouce any significant changes in wind speed and or direction) And even if the conditions are rapidly changing, who's to say that they're going to be the same 30 to 60 seconds from now when you land? At some point, don't you have to make your best assessment and go with it?"
#1. You're assuming that DAL is the only flight crews that ever ask for wind checks.

#2. You're comment about the necessity of asking for a windcheck is baseless and unprofessional. There are plenty of legitimate reasons why someone may ask for a windcheck. The last thing they need is for others to think that they're doing it for no good reason.

#3. You're missing the point. When things don't look right, it's best to be prepared and to start thinking about what you're going to do if winds suddenly change.

In my scenario, if my equipment is saying tailwinds and tower is calling headwinds, I know there's a shear. How bad? I don't know, it depends on how rapidly or slowly the direction changes. But knowledge is power and it helps me know if there's a potential problem that I'm about to fly into.

#4. I have no idea why anyone other than myself has asked for a windcheck. I've only done it a couple of times. But I assume the others had good reasons, just as I did.
KC10 FATboy is offline  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:22 PM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
 
KC10 FATboy's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,094
Default

#5. I almost forgot, tower is required to give you winds in a landing clearance, and well, they're human just like us, they forget.
KC10 FATboy is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
PinnacleFO
Regional
53
12-13-2010 12:04 PM
Rotorhead
Major
0
01-27-2009 06:50 AM
dragon
Major
60
12-06-2008 04:43 PM
JetFlyer06
Regional
34
09-01-2008 11:26 AM
ksatflyer
Hangar Talk
10
08-20-2008 09:14 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices