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Flight deck Safety Fee

Old 10-06-2009, 07:25 AM
  #1  
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Default Flight deck Safety Fee

From another forum...insert your own CBA numbers and compare to your company's block hours and load factors. I think we should get behind this simple solution.

Your Thoughts


There has been a lot of talk lately on compensation. Capt Prater suggested a very simple fix to both compensation, safety and experience. Its called "2$/HR". I thought long and hard about the concept and can find no down side. Airlines, FAA, and the Federal Government charge fees for just about everything. If the FAA or the Fed were to institute the "Flight Deck Safety Fee" (my words not any of theirs) every passenger on every airline would pay 2$/hr on their flights that would go directly toward pilots compensation. I know I know...I hear all of the negatives that come with that, but consider this.

1. No airline would be at a cost disadvantage as all 121 carriers would have the same fee imposed.
2. the paying public would not in all likely hood ever even know about the fee. How many know how much goes to the ticket price from this list from CAL?

Taxes and Fees

Travel within the United States and between the United States and certain Canada and Mexico locations

Quoted fare includes all base fare and surcharges and 7.5% U.S. excise tax. Quoted fare does not include the following taxes, fees and charges that may apply to your travel itinerary:

* Passenger facility charges (PFCs) of up to $18 per round trip
* September 11th Security Fee of up to $10 per round trip; one-way travel may incur fees in excess of $5
* U.S. segment fees of $3.60 per flight segment (a flight segment consists of one takeoff and one landing)
* For travel to/from Hawaii and Alaska, a U.S. excise tax of $8.00 per departure
* Each arrival in the U.S. from Canada/Mexico is subject to U.S. inspection fees of up to $12
* Non-U.S. government ticket taxes, fees and airport charges may add up to $45 per ticket for travel to/from Canada and Mexico
* A $50 fee will be charged for paper tickets issued by Continental. Your ticket will cost $20 more per person if booked by telephone or at a ticket office. These costs may vary by country. To avoid paying this additional expense, book and ticket your reservation on continental.com.

3. This could increase the bottom line for the company through gained interest ($150,000/mo)

I see it as a win-win for for all involved. Better qualified pilots in the future, Safer operation, improved reliability and increased profit margins. Passengers pay bag fees with little or no *****in so why would it be so much more difficult to pay $4 for a two hour long trip.

Here is how I see this working

The fees are collected and held to the end of the month. The block hrs are then multiplied by the load factors to give a fair per block hour payout.
for example August we flew 58,644 block hours with a load factor of 79.8%. 50 seats X 79.8%= 39.9 passengers per hour. $39.90/hr(per pilot) x 58,644 block hours =$4,679,791. XJT keeps these fees until the end of the month in an interest bearing account. At 2.5% interest they would make $116994.77/mo to handle the account. Each pilot would receive $39.90/hr for each block hour they flew. For each pairing you fly 20 hours you would receive your normal CBA negotiated pay + $39.90

quick summary for a 20 hour pairing
1yr CA 59.63 $1192.6 + $798= $1990.6
2yr CA 61.41 $1228.2 + $798= $2026.2
3yr CA 63.28 $1265.6 + $798= $2063.6
5yr CA 67.12 $1342.4 + $798= $2140.2
7yr CA 70.51 $1410.2 + $798= $2208.2
10yr CA 77.04 $1540.8 + $798= $2338.8
15yr CA 88.45 $1769.0 + $798= $2567.0

1yr FO 22.38 $447.6 + $798= $1245
2yr FO 33.32 $666.4 + $798= $1464.4
3yr FO 35.39 $707.8 + $798= $1505.8
4yr FO 37.74 $754.8 + $798= $1552.8
5yr FO 38.87 $777.4 + $798= $1575.4
6yr FO 40.04 $800.8 + $798= $1598.8
7yr FO 41.24 $824.8 + $798= $1622.8
8yr FO 42.48 $849.6 + $798= $1647.6

Just from this fee it would eliminate commuting issues...ie you can afford the hotel room, needing to fly 90+ hrs to survive on ramen noodles and PB&Js, minimize impact when new duty rules go into effect lowering the amount of productivity, and increase safety with better rested crews. The first FO sitting RSV and flying only 45 hrs would make an annual salary of $41,688. the most junior CA sitting RSV flying the same 45 hrs would make $81,954 yearly. No more sleeping in the crew room or worrying about pay vs flying. This is all at no cost to the company!

FOR JUST $2/hr all of this happens everywhere within the industry

This should be ALPAs mantra and a sticker on every flight kit. the FAA and Congress could make this happen over night!




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Old 10-06-2009, 08:11 AM
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Not a bad idea..
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:12 AM
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Someone needs to learn how to figure interest.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:22 AM
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@2.5% it's a little less than $10,000/mo -- nonetheless, still a pretty good idea.

HOWEVER, I see airlines eventually negotiating all of the airline-paid salary down to near zero. Eventually, we'll be paid $1/hr/pax + $20/hr override for a CA or something. I see the airlines taking advantage of that somehow.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:33 AM
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Default It's not just about pilots

Mechanics have been, and continue to be, outsourced too.

While the NTSB isn't as hot about it, there certainly are accidents where people have died b/c of shoddy MX. The most recent glaring example I can think of is Air Midwest 5481 in 2003 (though I'm sure there are others). US Airways outsourced the MX to Mesa, who again outsourced it!

I'd include dispatchers in the equation too. Next time you jumpseat on a regional and the crew has a minute, ask them about the release: min fuel, poor alternate choices, messed up routing - this is not uncommon @ many regionals, and it's due to the lack of experience @ the dispatch desk, just as less experienced pilots make some poor choices.

I'm not trying to exclude other groups, such as flight attendants, rampers, or customer service agents, but I've yet to see any data that safety is compromised due to the outsourcing in these jobs (though customer satisfaction certainly is). Pilots and mechanics, on the other hand, both have a direct correlation b/t experience and safety, maybe dispatch too.

So, if you're going to have a fee tacked on for safety, I'd like it to go to both pilots and mechanics, even if this ends up taking $ out of my pocket. Safety is more important, and experienced mechanics are worth it - maybe dispatchers too, though I'd need more discussion on that one to get behind it with my $.

Am I the only one who feels this way?
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:45 AM
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Safety need to be a mindset that goes top to bottom. When the execs realize that there is cost savings in safety and are willing to pay for the experience that delivers that, you will see some positive change.

Waiting for it may take till late next decade though. The almighty dollar has been more attractive then the cost of safety. Heck the traveling public willingly buys the cheapest ticket with no regard to safety because, they see it as a given. Most companies do not want to go after each others safety records, so in effect no company is willing to pay for a safer operation.

Of note most corporations has determined that paying someone more money will not ensure a safer operation either. We are finally seeing some extreme cases at the bottom end of the spectrum though, and that is good.

I have dispatched, worked the gate, loaded bags, and flow for the airlines. Fact is that an employee is or is not safety conscious prior to coming through the door. Employers know this too!

I am not sure that you could tack on a 2 fee like this and make it stick. It would just come out of the profit for the airline, or be allocated to something besides the flight crew. Look at the airport Superfund money.
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:02 AM
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I would love for that fee to pass, but in a reality check, if airlines figure out a way of pulling 2$/hr extra, it would go to their pockets, specially if the company is or is about to be in chap. 11. It's rought out there....
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Mechanics have been, and continue to be, outsourced too.

While the NTSB isn't as hot about it, there certainly are accidents where people have died b/c of shoddy MX. The most recent glaring example I can think of is Air Midwest 5481 in 2003 (though I'm sure there are others). US Airways outsourced the MX to Mesa, who again outsourced it!

I'd include dispatchers in the equation too. Next time you jumpseat on a regional and the crew has a minute, ask them about the release: min fuel, poor alternate choices, messed up routing - this is not uncommon @ many regionals, and it's due to the lack of experience @ the dispatch desk, just as less experienced pilots make some poor choices.

I'm not trying to exclude other groups, such as flight attendants, rampers, or customer service agents, but I've yet to see any data that safety is compromised due to the outsourcing in these jobs (though customer satisfaction certainly is). Pilots and mechanics, on the other hand, both have a direct correlation b/t experience and safety, maybe dispatch too.

So, if you're going to have a fee tacked on for safety, I'd like it to go to both pilots and mechanics, even if this ends up taking $ out of my pocket. Safety is more important, and experienced mechanics are worth it - maybe dispatchers too, though I'd need more discussion on that one to get behind it with my $.

Am I the only one who feels this way?
While I agree with you, I dont feel that it is our unions' job to fight for their benefits. If they feel that they should be entitled to this fee, then their unions should speak up for them. No objections here, i just dont think its our position.
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DrivingAloft View Post
I would love for that fee to pass, but in a reality check, if airlines figure out a way of pulling 2$/hr extra, it would go to their pockets, specially if the company is or is about to be in chap. 11. It's rought out there....
They already have its called a bag fee, and its adding millions to the bottom line. If you can add a bag fee you can add $8 to a ticket for a four hour flight.
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:35 AM
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The only problem I see with it is that the management would somehow figure out the way to pocket those extra "fees" and we as pilots would be left holding a bag.

If there was some sort of ALPA oversight - it just might solve the problem of pilot compensation and attract back the American talent that's gone overseas, which in recent years has been very significant...
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