JetBlue Guys pay attention!
 

As you all know the pilot group is eagerly awaiting their "retro" money dating back to 1 Jun 2009. right now that money is scheduled to be paid out on 20 October 2009. But wait! The company found a way mess this up too. Management does not want to treat this as "retro-pay" but rather as a "special payment". What this means is that none of this money will be eligible for profit sharing, 401K match, and will be taxed at a higher rate. That is not the definition of pay. This small fact was deliberately hidden from the pilots and the committees.

Take that ball and run with it. I guess we'll see when payroll hits in 3 weeks...

Uh, that sucks dude.

If that's what happens, you might end up welching on the bet you made.

And I wouldn't blame you.

deliberately hidden? Im sure thats what it was, thanks for the laugh.

I knew something like this would happen....

3A! Fax in that retainer boys... they'd lay it to us it's time to lay it on them.

Glad someone finally started a new site, bp.com was obviously ran by the company.

(our internal official/un-official message board went "down" for the past week or so in the midst of productive discussion.....)

Only a Pilot would b----h after a pay raise. What is wrong with you, did you mother not hug you enough when she changed your diapers?
BTW I just heard black helicopters follow B6 crewmembers in T5. Better watch out.

Why doesn't someone just file a grievance?

Oh...........wait, thats right, you guys dont have a union. :confused::mad:

We have a contract and a grievance process, you don't need a union to file a grievance. Its a good thing CaptCoolhand is wearing his boots, cause the siht is getting thick.

a grievance process where the company gets to choose the arbitrator ... the whole process is pretty much BS

This isnt a knock on jetblue but the industry in general. When a company has this much freedom and arbitrators are allowed to have proven "track records" then it just leads to companies screwing over the employees because they wont be held accountable

Strait from the horses mouth
 

Fellow Pilots;

Once again a rumor campaign with fictitious information has started, this time regarding your upcoming “retro” check in the October 20 paycheck.

Here are the facts:

Basic Information Regarding the Retroactive Payment:

• The retroactive payment will be included in your Oct 20th paycheck

• Retroactive pay will be subject to the supplemental rate for federal tax withholding of 25%, per IRS regulations. This rate may be more or less than your usual withholding rate, depending on your income level.

• 401 (k) contributions will be taken from eligible retroactive pay as they would in a standard pay cycle. IRS limits for maximum eligible compensation and deferrals still apply.

• The 401(k) match is made dollar for dollar up to 5% on all retroactive pay for taxable wages.

• Profit sharing is based on eligible pay at 12/31 of each year. Retroactive pay will be included in eligible pay for the 2009 year.

• Retroactive pay will be considered eligible pay for determining disability payments.

Dave Israel
Chair, Compensation and Benefits

On behalf of the Committee.

I believe in any grievance process both parties have to agree on the arbitrator.

"Only a Pilot would b----h after a pay raise"

Wow. Grow a spine man. This is a MAJOR airline, I know all the 500hour SJS Regional FO's would love to sell their soul to fly an Airbus or EMB. But this the real world, we are a real pilot group of a MAJOR US airline and deserve to be compensated as such.

I hope you're a JB pilot because if I just spent the time typing this out and you're some SJS 400 hour regional wonder I'm gonna be upset.

Pay raise? BFD. Some CA's took a PAYCUT. Just because we stood on the shoulders of pilots with a real union, real benefits, and a real CBA to get industry average pay I'm not gonna go jumping around like I've been injected with SJS. If we had any teeth we would be looking at industry leading pay AND benefits, until then I'm not all that excited.

I don't know about you but I work to be compensated fairly.

Below average pay, below average insurance, below average work rules? Not fair.

I know it's cool to tell random people at the grocery store you're an "airline pilot" but that doesn't pay the bills, keep my kids healthy, or guarantee my employment. We all worked hard to even sit in the seat of one of these airplanes, and it's time we're compensated as the company has promised and per our PEA's (see section 3a).

What about our subpar medical insurance? LoL, LTD, OJI? Scope? (not the mouthwash) Crap work rules and an "everyone is equal" culture? Erosion of captains authority? Late bid results? Scheduling to FAR's? Hotel/no-hotel games with CS?, bids full of red-eyes?, ex MGT people with no seniority getting preferential treatment on seat and A/C assignment...


As for the BluePilots.com thing, you gotta' be high to not think the company didn't have a hand in that website. Ever hear about the guys who were talking about drug testing in a thread and were pulled for a test on the next paring? Or how the hired gun union busters were granted access to a "pilot only" website to drop off non-union propaganda pretending to be JB aviators? Or how about right when the 3A talks heated up and right before the deadline to sign and fax in your retainer to the lawyers then the website went "offline" for a few weeks, or when that Corporate Comm. chick would pop in and try to slew the propaganda from forest hills... This is real. No choppers, or heard it through bla,bla,bla... this happens.

Was all that magic? Or did the company have a hand in it?

So yea, maybe I was dropped on my head as a kid. But my Dad always told me to work for what I'm worth, not selling myself or my profession short. And without union representation JB Pilots will continue to stand on the backs of other hard working pilot groups just to POSSIBLY have a shot at industry average compensation. We need to unify and set a new standard, because we owe it to every other US pilot group.


So yea, basically a little bump in pay (for some) is still far away from an AVERAGE compensation PACKAGE and work rules, and most certainly not something for me to be excited about.

sounds like the guy who started the thread needs to talk with buff mike.

That statement, ironically so simple, is one of the funniest things that I have seen written here.

Throw Buff Mike a few scraps and he proudly boasts from the roof tops. Being as green as he is, he remains unaware of what catching up still needs to be done.

He's like the kid who's been running around in an old Honda Civic while his peers have been driving Bimmers. After years near the bottom, he's been promised shiny rims, seat covers, and a big muffler and he can't stop shouting about it.

What's next, furry dice?

JJ

There already is a process in place to handle these issues. If you dont like it then quit and go find a job. Why people insist on complaining like a bunch of little girls is beyond me. Good luck finding a job in this economy and let us know how much better it is at your new place of employment.

And what do you think we are gonna talk about? How to start threads and rummors with no fact and all BS behind them. :rolleyes:

I did the Math on the 320CA pay, and even if you only work 77 hours with no premium, you still got at least a 7% raise or more. So how did they take pay cuts?

And why people insist on sitting back and letting other pilot groups make the strides for the entire industry is beyond me.

Here is the email I received that disproves the rumors on this subject. Get your facts straight before posting.

Once again a rumor campaign with fictitious information has started, this time regarding your upcoming “retro” check in the October 20 paycheck.

Here are the facts:

Basic Information Regarding the Retroactive Payment:

• The retroactive payment will be included in your Oct 20th paycheck

• Retroactive pay will be subject to the supplemental rate for federal tax withholding of 25%, per IRS regulations. This rate may be more or less than your usual withholding rate, depending on your income level.

• 401 (k) contributions will be taken from eligible retroactive pay as they would in a standard pay cycle. IRS limits for maximum eligible compensation and deferrals still apply.

• The 401(k) match is made dollar for dollar up to 5% on all retroactive pay for taxable wages.

• Profit sharing is based on eligible pay at 12/31 of each year. Retroactive pay will be included in eligible pay for the 2009 year.

• Retroactive pay will be considered eligible pay for determining disability payments.


In addition Flight Ops, People and Payroll are working internally for a comprehensive communication to be distributed on October 9th. There will be some good stuff to share - ie, a sample pay stub, explanations of varying "eligible incomes," for 401(k) and disability, and an explanation of the federal supplemental withholding rules, etc.

Thanks to those of you that brought to the attention of the CBC and PVC via email. We always encourage you to contact us and/or your Base Chief when you want accurate information.

As for you crf, as I said earlier just pack your stuff and go find another company or business to get into. Nobody will be stopping you and let us know how green the grass is on the other side.

Mike,

I dont know how you deal with the whiners on this blog. As long as you stick to facts there is not much they can debate.

What does this have to do with medical insurance, OJI, LoL, LTD? Or with work rule changes? COL adjustment? CS problems? Pretty much everything I wrote about.

I'm in a pool at another airline, and frankly I don't expect that to work out anytime soon so unlike most here at JB I believe we should stand up for our own and get what we deserve. Not by citing contracts negotiated by OTHER pilot groups but by setting our own bar.

I know all you guys are excited about getting a "big" check that represents money we've already earned, but I'm not blinded by it.

Man up and stand up for what you deserve.

The facts are that we are being PLAYED. We are weak, spineless, no heart.

It's time we changed that.

Dude, seriously. I have been to Iraq and Afghanistan more times than you wish to know. I dont think I need to prove manning up to anyone, thank you.

No, THANK YOU!!!!! And as for these guys on the forum I don't worry about them, they always look at what they don't have instead of what they do have.

Since you brought it up, I appreciate your service..

Just curios is this the first airline you've worked for?

Seems like you believe your experience is valuable, why are you letting the company shortchange you? Why do you want to stand on the backs of the pilot groups who work hard to fight for the compensation packages and work rules that create the industry standard that we are striving for?

The PVC is weak, we need representation, we need a CBA.

[quote=alvrb211;686724]Throw Buff Mike a few scraps and he proudly boasts from the roof tops. Being as green as he is, he remains unaware of what catching up still needs to be done.

He's like the kid who's been running around in an old Honda Civic while his peers have been driving Bimmers. After years near the bottom, he's been promised shiny rims, seat covers, and a big muffler and he can't stop shouting about it.

What's next, furry dice?

Weeeelll, hmmm, I wasn't trying to be derogatory toward buff mike....He and I are fellow pilots at the joint. I just know his posts to generally be positive toward company action. Obviously, the first guy is suspicious. For a moment there, I just envisioned the conversation between the two and it struck me humorously--imagined Beatle Bailey getting yelled at by his sergeant. (You can put either guy in the sergeants role)

Civics have a nice reliability record? Don't they? Lotsa BMW's in the pre-owned market these days. Seems people bought more than they could afford. Hey, JetBlue has a ways to go to get to SWA level work rules, benefits, compensation, etc. It is what it is. I prefer to fly rather than put a suit on--if I could find that work...I'll accept it for now and try the "glass half full" thing--at least until January (new union vote?). I am interested primarily in work rules improvements--yet to be determined.

You absolutely need a CBA. The rest is just hot air and they (management) can change their minds as they wish. I am happy for all JB Pilots! It is well deserved.

The company is shortchanging me? Wow thanks for telling me that, and that is according to who? You. I am paid what the market will bear. I knew the pay going in so why are you trying to get in a ****ing match with me and others over something that is your problem? If you dont think you are paid what your worth then go find a job that pays you more, its not rocket science. Much like the military, I know my pay scales and it is what it is.

The company is giving the pilots a raise when other companies are cutting flights, furloughing and your here complaining? I just dont get the mentality that you think your so gifted that you are worth more and more. How much are you worth? Tell us how much you should be making here and now....is it 100 an hour? 150? 500? What would it take for crf to not be here complaining. It sounds like it wouldnt matter what a company pays your going to have some kind of complaint, am I right? The way I look at it and my perspective......I wake up, go to work about half the month give or take, sleep in something other than a dusty tent, nobody is trying to bomb me on an overnight, approaches into Kennedy dont involve surface to air fire. Actually this lifestyle is pretty easy and unfortunately you dont know how easy you have it in this country. Maybe you should find another profession if its not working out, and Im saying that in good nature. I mean why be unhappy? Good luck.

Very well said HD.

CRFguy
Give us an idea of a pay rate you would like (for all seats and crafts) and make business case for it. While you are at it, I am also interested in your workrules, scope language, and scheduling ideas. On the scheduling front you complained, in an earlier post, about the red-eyes. So share your ideas how to run the airline without red-eyes, while servings our customers and efficient aircraft utilization.
Last but not least, what do you think, give me your best estimate, how long will it take to work your proposals into a CBA.

Eagerly awaiting your response

The problem with ALPA, and Unions in general, is they have lost touch with reality in the market place. Yes, there is bad management out there in corporate America. On the flip side, unions are managed too and most of them are managed very badly. This reminds me of "Animal Farm" when a good theoretical idea is turned into a complete nightmare by a few self-proclaimed self-serving leaders.

[quote=Logger;686978] Let's just look at individual contracts and tell it like it is!

This business, like many others, is all about statistics. It's not difficult to measure the mean, mode, median, range, std deviation and extreme outliers etc in a contract.

The question should be, where does the contract lie?

Is it below average, average, or above average in most areas? Are there areas of the contract that represent extreme outliers?

If it's below average, WHY?

I'm not interested in counterfactual reasoning or emotional measurement of a contract based on good or bad experience. It's all about the numbers!

So, on the whole, where does your contract lie from a mathematical standpoint?


JJ

It is not finished so it cannot be evaluated in its entirety yet. Like I said, there is much more beyond payrates that is yet to be determined. Please forego the business tutorial. If you don't like me twisting your analogy, don't write a bad analogy. If the contract does not measure up or the company stalls continously, there will be another union vote.

It wasn't a business tutorial. Little point as many pilots on here are business majors. So, since you have business knowledge, where are the extreme outliers?


JJ

Seems to me that, despite contract ssues, many at JB still don't want a union.

JJ