CALTanker

Reading this thread and many others, Management has succeeded in whipsawing pilots against one another. Management is smiling all the way to the bank while pilots fight amongst themselves. Management doesn't care whom does the flying, just as long as they do it and for as little as possible.

JoeMerchant

Did managment create this Varsity/JV or Master/Apprentice system...or did we? Your last sentence says it all....Management considers us all just "pilots"...It is the pilots who don't consider us all the same...

ToiletDuck

The potential was still there for massive loss of life. Whether or not someone dies isn't what draws the line in the sand on this issue. It's that the possibility existed and it was due to pilot error. What if someone had been sitting waiting to take off and had their lights off for the landing traffic? Only then would it be a serious matter?

If your child was playing with a gun he found in the cabinet and it went off would the issue of gun safety in the household only matter if someone was shot? Would the subject of gun control be any less important if someone hadn't?

Rather B Fishin

As one can see by my post count I don't do this often. I think everyone needs to take a step back, check emotion at the door and look at this from a "professional" point of view.

Some of the higher profile "regional" incidents/accidents occurred due to poor training, lack of experience/knowledge.
Some of the higher profile "major" incidents/accidents occurred due to complacency, task tunnel vision, lack of CRM.

Each group has it's own demons. Recently the "regional" group has had more publicity with their accidents. Hence the media attention and FAA intervention. Their fix: 1500 hrs and an ATP.

If you don't think having more time and experience contributes to making you a safer pilot then you're in the wrong profession. One of the great things about this profession is the ability to learn something new every time you go flying. As a former "regional" guy who was fortunate enough to have moved up, that learning process increases ten fold. When you're the Captain at a "regional" you're learning from your mistakes. When you're an fo at a "major" you've made a bunch of mistakes and are learning from the guy/gal in left seat whose made DECADES more.

From what I read, ACL is not defending the act, but the pilots. They will be shredded by the company and the FAA, how bout we take a pass? How bout we "attempt" to figure out what could have gone wrong, then "attempt" to come up with ways to prevent it from happening again... Nahhh attacking our brethern pilots is waaay to easy.

This is a public message board lurked by media and lawyers alike. A lawyer would have a field day using online arguments made by a pilot of his own airline in a suit. How bout we start defending the profession "regional" and "major" included and not each group.

The best quote I heard from a wise CA about the AA Cali crash: "That's gotta be one of the stupidest places to put a mountain, who would ever put a mountain right in the middle of their flight path". If you don't understand the context then I don't want you sitting in the seat next to me........

Airdale

Well, this thread is humorous. I can't believe how immature some of you are with this Regional vs. Mainline garbage. Proof that a National union with one seniority list is a pipe dream.

The bottom line is, there is no excuse to land a plane full of pax on a taxiway. One person with a medical emergency is not an excuse to risk the lives of an entire flight crew and a plane full of pax and possibly people on the ground.

I'm not going to throw rocks at the DAL crew, who the hell knows what took place up front. But one thing is for sure - the FAA isn't going to brush it under the rug. This had all the makings of a disaster, thank God there weren't airplanes lined up on the taxiway.

It will be interesting to see what the FAA discovers.

bcrosier

I understand your frustration Joe, but try and see it from the outside. I'm not a major pilot, I'm just a ACMI guy. That said I spend a LOT of time riding in the back of other people's aircraft. Without exception, every time I've wanted to crawl under the seat (I often position in uniform due to the TSA) because of the rank amateurism of the crew, it's been on on a regional. It hasn't happened on foreign carriers (granted, I've had the good fortune to only position on the better ones thus far), it doesn't happen on the majors, it does happen on the regionals. Is it all flights or all crews? Absolutely not! But it does happen, and when it does the safety card always seems to say "Canadair" or "Embraer." I'll bet that 90%+ of regional crews operate in a professional manner (a number of my former colleagues are now at regionals, and I'll ride with them ANY day of the week). Unfortunately for you, many of the regional operators have failed to create a culture where unprofessional behavior receives zero tolerance. As a result, the 5%-10% tend to run amok, and create scenarios that range from embarrassing to tragic. Are majors immune? Certainly not, but I have yet to ride on a major where the crew was doing a Laurel and Hardy routine with the FA as they taxied at a major airport.

I'm sorry if your feelings are hurt by all of this, but direct your anger where it needs to be - at the 5%'ers at your carrier. Get them to clean up there acts and do your part to improve the entire profession.

As for the Delta crew, let's wait and see what comes out of this when all the cards are face up...

Lambourne

Nope, makes no difference. What is the first line of every Emergency Section: FLY THE AIRPLANE.

Also, the NTSB report says the sick check airman was moved to the cabin. This appears to have been done well before landing. They did not divert and continued to ATL.

L

DWN3GRN

Just curious, The Capt was receiving OE, The Check Captain was in the back. this is a total violation, Isn't it?

deltabound

Yep.

Without additional data, this thread is really only good at this point to update one's "ignore list". There seems to be a whole lot of projection going on here by some pilots who are positively gloating at this apparent error.

It's an utterly incomprehensible attitude for any so-called professional aviator to take. Very sad.

USMCFLYR

I'm sure that circumstances might have called for other measures. Even if it is in normal operations - I'm sure that if the Check Airman was vomiting all over the cockpit for instance that it would be the proper thing to remove him from the cockpit for safety reasons.

USMCFLYR