Cape Air has pay based only on duty hours and most of the guys I have talked to there love it.

Having only 1 payscale might restrict the company from getting a wider range of a/c. UPS has a relatively similar size a/c in their fleet (757, 767, A300, MD11, 747). Would they be able to pay the same if they started flying smaller jets like a 737 size, or an Ejet?

Maybe just a flat salary similar to how contract carriers overseas do it. You can bid for whatever schedule you want, it will all be the same pay(but changes for different a/c).

Perhaps it's because the 10 year F/O has more years of experience?
I could be wrong on this though :rolleyes:


Ally

Flat pay would help, seniority/longevity transfer would be great, those are all up to us and our unions to achieve. But the RLA is the one thing that our lawmakers can fix. We elect these folks and they do squat to help us. Last time I checked trains just went fast and slow, our aircraft do a bit more than that. With all that this job requires of us (dont forget TAFB) I don't buy into subsidizing the 'greater good of the country' by sleeping in a van and eating rice and beans for dinner while barely keeping my lights on at home.

Your collective bargaining agreement. The union put forth a contract to the membership, the membership (hopefully) read the contract, and the MAJORITY of the membership voted for it. In other words, the majority approved of it and people willfully accept the jobs with stated and agreed upon pay and benefits.

Yes, you are wrong because the 10 years of experience only applies to that particular carrier and his date of hire with that particular carrier. It does NOT look back at experience. If we had some kind of national seniority list, you'd be right.

I know this has been said a million times, but I guess I'll mention it again. You are not paid what you think you are worth, you are paid based on what you can successfully negotiate. And that is true whether you are in a union or a non-union employee negotiating a wage with a potential employer.

I think some of the foreign carriers pay for the seat, and not the plane (my current company does).

But, I'm also on salary, so I can fly zero to 100 hours a month.

And perhaps the 10 year FO has exactly that, and the one year FO was a 15 year captain at his previous airline.

You are correct.

I was addressing the previous poster that said that 10 year FO having more experience warranted higher pay, and that's wrong because it only takes into account time spent at that particular carrier... NOT the true experience.

Lab Rat,

Agreed. No matter how "important" we are, or how many passengers we carry, or how much responsibility we have, we are only going to get paid what we negotiate.

And to do that we need tools. The RLA and union system hinder us from using our best tool.... instant strike. Which is what everyone else (other industries) does when they say, "hey, either pay/treat/love me better or I am out of here."

The RLA puts up road blocks (cooling off periods, etc) to hinder that so that "the greater good" is not hindered. And the Union does it because it says, "sure you can leave your job, but if you try and come over here with your 747,767, MD80, DC-9, DC-10, 737 types and 18,000 hours you will start on the bottom at first year pay and benefits."

So the senior guys are beholden to thier carrier they have been with for 20 years and managment knows it. They know they will never leave because they can't get a better job in the industry anywhere else.

Therefore we lose our power to negotiate and rely on the "rising tide raises all ships/ solidarity" ploy. Which never works, because in the end each pilot will do what he has to do for his own family. And that is human nature and no matter how much propaganda Unions sell, that will never change.

Someone else on this board said it better than me, but Unions speak to mankinds best nature, but not to reality.