USAirways vs. wholly owned.
 

Just curious. USAirway pilots, how do you feel about your wholly owned carriers (PDT & PSA)? How do you feel about them compared to the contract carriers?

I think he is using the "VS" because our mainline "brothers" have never shown us at Piedmont any respect at least in the 5 years I have been here. You would think that we could work together in trying to get rid of mesa and republic, but mainline pilots fight Piedmont over trying to get rid of the 70 seat TURBOPROP scope in our contract. Meanwhile mesa and republic take THIER jobs in the 170 and CRJ-900 with no simmilar outrage. Also when I try to jumpseat instead of my "brothers" welcoming me, they treat me like a second class citizen and think I am trying to take their job in my 25 year old turboprop, if they even remember I fly a turboprop as their wholly owned regional. I wish they would show support for PSA and especially Piedmont in the Crew News sessions, and push Parker to keep flying in house instead of outsourcing, since Piedmont lost 11 aircraft this year and we are slowly withering away. That is why I think this fellow Piedmonster is asking about the mainline pilots attitude towards the WHOLLY OWNEDS VS the CONTRACT carriers. Because right now it doesnt seem like they even care about keeping us around...their fellow "brothers". Just my opinion though.

From one wholly owned(Eagle) to another... I hear ya. I think all the WOs are in the same boat. It will be interesting to see if any mainline partner ever embraces their wholly owned carriers to work together. It would be seriously amazing and unstoppable if this could happen, but I'm thinking it is just a far-fetched idea.

There is no outrage because Republic or Mesa hasn't "taken" any jobs from US Airways Pilots. Any flying performed at Republic or Mesa was negotiated by AAA ALPA by USAIRWAYS PILOTS. So, be careful on how you assign blame. But, don't take my word for it...ask a US Airways pilot.

I took an international flight recently and the captain gave a republic guy a first class seat and I (Wholly Owned) got to sit in coach.

Thanks DAD!

Were you jumpseating or non revving? There is a difference.

Doesn't matter DAD would never give his kids a first class seat.

Do Airways pilots even visit this site? Guess not.

Compass looks pretty good these days - from the outside looking in.

Hey guys,I feel for you. I left Henson because the promise of a flow into Piedmont (the original) was never going to happen. I have spent the last 22 years at AWA, now Us Airways, and I'm glad I left. Us Airways sucks. It sucked since the 3 way in 88 and it continues today. Most of the East pilots forget that 25 years ago US Air/Piedmont still had turboprops. US Airways was always a regional airline with jets. Nothing wrong with that except they believe they are some major legacy carrier like Delta or United or American. Nothing could be further from the truth. Arrogance is scary when you combine it with stupid.

If you ride on West metal you will be treated well, although most West guys don't know who is wholly owned and who is contract. We all wish we had the jet flying in house, hell, we had Dash 8s at AWA as part of the mainline.

If we have the same you uniform Silver over Blue bars then we are wholly owned.

The West side of the company is happy to take damn near anybody..and I mean that with no disrespect to the East guys, I don't know what their deal is. I'm not a Captain, but as far as I'm concerned, if you're a wholly owned, they you're family and we'll treat you as such. Everybody else we'll treat like welcome guest.

I did have one of our guys tell me they hauled a Mesa Dash FO from Florida to Denver. As luck would have it, turns out the AWA FO was finishing his trip and was going to be riding on the Mesa FO's first leg to get home. Guy says, "hey, I have a lot of trouble on your flights. Your guys don't seem to try very hard to get Jump Seaters on." Mesa guy says, "yeah, a lot of our Captains aren't real big on OAL guys sitting up front. I think the guy I'm paired with doesn't like main-line guys up front". Sure enough, our FO gets the thumbs down, "Sorry, Captain says won't work 'cause of W&B."

If we don't look out for each other, who will?

From Talking to fellow Piedmoster that commute from the west coast; it is a big difference when jumpseating/nonrev with the west coast guys.
They are always pleased to have you on board and try to accomodate you .... Thanks a lot guys

I once was jumpseating from Tampa to BWI on MetroJet, back when I was a lowly 1900 guy from AirMidwest. I'm in the jumpseat, and the Captain reluctantly takes me on. He decides ON THE TAXI OUT that I can't come. We pull into the blocks, he gets out his FOM, procedes to find where it says I can go. Me and the FO try the best we can to prove to him its ok. I'm in a USAir Express uniform, mind you, with USAir Express on my ID. He tools in the block for 15 minutes, both engines running, before pulling the trigger. What a doosh.

Never had a problem with the westies, great bunch of guys.

Funny thing about it, I'm an AWAC guy and I never had a problem with any jumpseat, both east or west. In fact, the east guys never, not once, have ever given me, or any of my fellow employees a problem.

As a frequent commuter who has a relatively awkward commute routing, I try and stay offline as much as I can. Very seldom have I had a bad experience with anyone.

I just appreciate all the rides I've received from almost every carrier out there, and am happy to reciprocate anytime.

addition-I've had the aforementioned mixed luck with US mainline myself, but on the other hand, I've had a few of those guys go to some far lengths to make sure I got on the flight. As long as you get to base/home when you need to is what matters.......I'll take anything that gets me there.

It does NOT matter whether its a Wholly owned carrier or a contract provider - because either way - IT EQUALS LESS MAINLINE JOBS. PERIOD.

What is truely annoying are wholly owned carrier pilots who THINK they're entitled something from their mainline counterparts....hahahahaha!!!

In my understanding there's a big difference between wholly owned and contract carriers. I agree it equals fewer mainline jobs, which is not good for anybody. Most wholly owned employees understand that they're generating profit/reaping benefits of the same holding company that the mainline is. US Airways is also a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways Group holdings, just like Piedmont and PSA are. We are all generating cash for the same company, and it's all going into one giant pot. Contract carriers are an entirely different beast.

While I agree it is not ideal to have regional airlines at all - and all the flying should be done by the mainlines - the fact is they do exist.

Finally, the vast majority of wholly owned pilots don't think they're entitled to anything. They just want to not be treated like a red headed stepchild. More often than not I think this occurs because mainline pilots don't know the difference between a wholly owned and a contract carrier, in which case it's much more productive to understand their point of view and educate them to the reality - if you do it right, they'll appreciate it and come away from the situation with a better understanding of the dynamics between the airlines.

Yeah screw those KIDS who took the jets when mainline gave them away. Forget the fact when they got them they took in lots of mainline pilots who were on the street then when time came to pay the little brother back with preforcial hiring mainline pilots said FU. Speaking about entitlement how about the mainline guys whoride in the back without the common curtisy to step up front and at least say hi. It goes both ways.

Airdale, what leads you to think that it's all about the mainline pilots?

Study some history of how we ended up in this outsourced-flying mess
currently upon us. Since you really loved wholly-owneds, start with the background of PDT. Formed in 1962 in HGR, and became (as Henson Airlines) basically one of the pioneers of the 'Express', 'Commuter', etc. concept. You know why? Because the smaller markets that Henson served couldn't support mainline ALG service! Even under market regulation. Not some vast conspiracy to undercut the mainline pilot groups.

Back then, similar carriers flew BE99's, Navajos, Twin Otters, etc. Do you think that in the late 1960's/early 1970's, the 'mainline' groups such as DL/ALG/UA/Pan Am were foaming at the mouth to get their 'outsourced' Beech 99's/DH6's on property because they 'took mainline jobs away'? I'm not old enough to speak of that time when it has happening, but I'd venture to say 'no' would be the answer to that one. It was OK to have 'commuter' subsidiaries back almost as a B-scale, but as scope was eroded over the years, then we have a crisis as aircraft sizes increase.

The rest is past. C99's became B1900's became SF340s/DH8's, then we had the 50-seat RJ/70/90 seat RJ and the E-Jets. The problem of 'outsourcing' flying could have been reigned in years before today's group of regional pilots were ever conceived. To summarize, don't blame the people who have been flying turboprops on the same routes since you were born.

I think of all the express carriers out there, PDT fits it's role better than anybody. We fly mostly 37 seat turboprops, with a few 50 seat turboprops thrown in there. The majority of of our routes are perfect for the Dash. If we can get those RJ's off of the CLT-AVL type routes and replace them with all Dash 8's, then all should be good. That is not a jet route. That isn't a mainline rout either, maybe it was back in the day, but the Dash 8 fits it perfectly. The RJ's are flying routes that should be at mainline. Regional flights should be exactly what PDT does, turboprops jumping around short hops feeding the hubs, not doing CLT-LGA, CLT- ROC, CLT-MEM-PHX, CLT to anything west of TN! So this is why I don't understand why mainline hates PDT so much. I haven't really had to many poor experiences with the mainline crews, mostly because they don't know who we are but mainline as a collective, actions speak louder than words. Just an opinion.

Well said....and we will see what they do if and when oil does go back up. I hope they park the RJs.

How about routes such as CLT-XNA? That is way to long to do on a Dash and it wont fill a 737 or a E190? what then? The CRJ's have a place just like the dash does. However I agree with you the CRJ should not be doing CLT-AVL,CAE, GSO, PGV and a few others. But what about those same cities from PHL? Those could be served on a 200/700.

GSO works for the larger jets because the loads allow for it. I hated that flight in the Dash 8 100's because we always had to leave some behind, especially if an alternate was needed. The 300 worked well. And what E190? I don't see the remaining 190's on property past early 2010. Of course there are some routes that don't fill mainline equipment, but I think the 319 could do this or the 733. Even the 190 if it stayed around. My point was that it feels like mainline has it out for the Wholly Owned carriers. This bit them in the but years ago because them not wanting us to fly opened the door for the contract carriers to explode! I don't feel like we get a whole lot of respect from anyone just because we fly the Dash 8. I just wounder if they realize that the jets, including PSA, are doing routes that should be done by mainline, not necessarily PDT. If a RJ is needed for the route, then I do hope they give it to PSA, but PDT isn't taking their flying.

It doesn't matter what kind of RJ does that route as long as the pilots are paid what they're worth. Back in the day, Piedmont 737s flew those routes with pilots paid appropriately. Want to put an RJ on it, fine... but they shold be making what the old Piedmont pilots used to make on it.

The flying public wants to be able to fly from CLT to Podunk small town 12 times a day. And as we know the airlines can't just say no. If you think you can fill a A320 4 times a day to a small town then i bet it would be on a mainline jet. This is where the regional jet comes in. Please explain how you feel mainline has it out for PSA/PDT?
I agree with you except where a CRJ guy should be getting paid what a 737 guy got years ago. Even i know with the current cost structure at the airlines this would BK them all. But I do think RJ guys and even Dash guys need to get paid more. 18K a year to start is stupid.

Why should it BK the airlines? Did Piedmont go bankrupt paying those wages?

The question you should be asking yourself is this. If Piedmont was profitable flying those routes in a 737, why shouldn't a Republic or any regional be, as well?

My answer is that the airlines did this to themselves. In their frenzy for crewing high cost aircraft (RJs) at the lowest common denominator, they boxed themselves in. Now they can't even make money in a stand-alone RJ operation, and have to subscribe to the "fee per departure" paid by big brother.

Solution, put a bigger aircraft fewer times a day, pay the crew what they're worth, match the market with the demand, and voila, recipe for success. Exactly what Piedmont (and most other major airlines) used to do back in the day.

Oh wait, we wouldn't have airline pilot infighting and divide/conquer between pilot groups if we did that. Which is exactly what they want.

JMO.
73

Sometimes, yes! I have 25 years at US Airways and fly Capt 737 out of CLT. I used to fly Intl on the 767. I always offer first class to my jumpseaters, and contrary to perception, most of us here remember the days of night freight and the 3.5 years I did in the SD-330. for the record, we have agonized under a Ch 11 contract for many years now, and we are just in a continuous battle with mgmt. There is no thought given to US vs. Piedmont or Mesa etc in particular. our scope clause was violated, taking jobs away from mainline, so we are not a happy lot in general, but on the job we manage to have a good time for the most part. This sompany is anti-employee, and morale suffers, especially with the ongoing merger problems. Back on the Shorts, I felt the same as you. But I now realize that there is so much time and energy consumed by fighting the company and living daily life (busier as we get older, I'm 51) that there is not time nor energy left over to, as was said, fight for everyone's rights at the regionals. Nor could we even hope to fight for rights for wholly owned when we at US Airways have over 400 outstanding grievances, and the company breaks our contract on a daily basis. This career has not worked out for many of us as expected, tho my old roommate "Jeff" is enjoying fame after downing some Geese (along with his AB). I can only offer that you fly professionally, enjoy the flying as it comes your way, and keep up a polished resume and an upbeat attitude. I wish you a better career than I have had after 4 mergers, but I am not complaining, only trying to give some insight. There have been mergers since day one in the airlines, and always will be. Best of luck, fly safe.